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Thread: One Boolit To Rule Them All, .357 edition

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    My current thinking:

    A WFN profile mold that casts a solid around 175 grains will probably generate something close to the classic 158 grain when set up with hollow point pins. That nose profile will avoid the "nose-too-long" potential of the 173 grain 358429 SWC. Alteration of alloy, charge, and nose would pretty much cover anything you'd need to do with a .357 save snakeshot. Not sure if any of the "mass production" houses are even into offering cast HP options, but it might be a line of research for you.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  2. #22
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    I don't think the groove makes all that much difference other than they are easier to quickly cast a pile of them.
    the grooved ones will also give you a crimp groove which you'll want if you decide to step on the 2400 or H-110
    I'd Look at Bayou bullets too.
    Donnie there is the importer for Hi-Tek and has that stuff down pat.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  3. #23
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    I shoot 357 in everything from 4" to 16" and am happy running rb to 225 gr bullets in mine. I am of the opinion this is kind of thinking that the 06 is good only for deer and only with a 165 gr bullet. Restricted to one mold of the 20 + 35 caliber molds I own I would go with NOE 160 wfn.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Gianni View Post
    I shoot 357 in everything from 4" to 16" and am happy running rb to 225 gr bullets in mine. I am of the opinion this is kind of thinking that the 06 is good only for deer and only with a 165 gr bullet. Restricted to one mold of the 20 + 35 caliber molds I own I would go with NOE 160 wfn.
    Someday I'll surely have a rack of molds, but I'm trying to make the most of limited resources for now. I'm with you on tweaking for perfect as a rule though.
    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    I don't think the groove makes all that much difference other than they are easier to quickly cast a pile of them.
    the grooved ones will also give you a crimp groove which you'll want if you decide to step on the 2400 or H-110
    I'd Look at Bayou bullets too.
    Donnie there is the importer for Hi-Tek and has that stuff down pat.
    I had not considered the longer crimp. I was a little worried about crimping on the grooveless bullets just because of the recoil-pulling with the J-frame.

  5. #25
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    I am partial to the NOE 360-160-SWC as shown below. I like the second crimp groove for another length option. I had a few other 358 molds in that weight range, but most of them have been sold...as I like this one the best.

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...oducts_id=2240

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
    . A 180gr would be a bit heavy for the snubs.
    Recoil isn't as bad as you would expect. I loaded up some 180 gr. RNFP for my lever with AA#7 but POI was way too low. So I figured I'd try them in my Ruger LCR snubbie. Not any worse than 158 SWC's.

    Winelover

  7. #27
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    There's a lot of good suggestions on this thread and I don't think I can add much.

    I will say that with the OP's current lineup of revolvers, he may want to lean a little closer to 160 grs bullet weight than the 170.
    That narrows the main choice down to bullet style (SWC vs RNFP). I think the SWC may be a bit better "all-around" bullet but that opinion is just that, an opinion.
    Some lever actions get along better without that sharp shoulder on the bullet and so do some revolvers when using speedloaders. A slight chamfer on the revolver chambers (charge holes for you S&W people) pretty much fixes the revolver - speedloader issue.

    So, I'm going say some SWC in the 158-160 grain range and call it a day.

  8. #28
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    And finding a local caster to provide some boolits isn't gonna run anyone up against the BATFE unless they are selling to more than one person. One person does not make a 'business'. Unless you are shooting an awful lot!
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdaniel.mac View Post
    Several of the sellers I've looked at sell 'sample' bags of 25 or 50, so sampling is definitely on the menu. Missouri Bullet has a 100-pack sampler.

    Polymer or powder coating has been okay so far. I ran a case of polymer-coated 9mm with no problems. Gas checks are right the out, but most of the designs can be had in a plain-base.

    Right now I think the leader is the Missouri Bullet 158gr SWC "action!" Hi-Tek. Anyone have a preference for grooves vs grooveless? I'm tempted to think the grooveless would be shorter and I'd prefer the longer bearing surface, but I'm not sure it would matter much.
    I think the action boolits are to hard but haven't tried any with Hi-Tek so it may work, the softer boolits expand a lot better.

  10. #30
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    Been using 358156 for more than 40 years in Revolvers, Contenders and Carbines. It works, that's all....carry on!!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rond View Post
    I think the action boolits are to hard but haven't tried any with Hi-Tek so it may work, the softer boolits expand a lot better.
    The Action! bullets are a Brinell 18, and the softer ones are Brinell 12. I'm worried the softer ones might not fare well once they get up around 1100FPS.

  12. #32
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    12 is harder than I run in almost everything I got.
    it don't even try to get past that until I'm running in a rifle or seeking more accuracy with the very top end loads.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  13. #33
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    12 BHn is plenty hard for revolvers and maybe too hard for most loads.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    12 is harder than I run in almost everything I got.
    it don't even try to get past that until I'm running in a rifle or seeking more accuracy with the very top end loads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    12 BHn is plenty hard for revolvers and maybe too hard for most loads.
    Thanks to both of you. Sounds like the 12 will suffice.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdaniel.mac View Post
    The Action! bullets are a Brinell 18, and the softer ones are Brinell 12. I'm worried the softer ones might not fare well once they get up around 1100FPS.
    I'm pushing well over 1100fps at a hardness around 12 w/ no issues. They are all plain base as well. People make to much out of hardness.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Elmer Keith used to call 12 BHN 'hard' lead.


  17. #37
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    And finding a local caster to provide some boolits isn't gonna run anyone up against the BATFE unless they are selling to more than one person. One person does not make a 'business'. Unless you are shooting an awful lot!
    Ha Ha Ha - You must be trying to apply common sense to .Gov.
    oh, tell me another one.

    The GCA of 1968 defines ammunition as:


    Ammunition. Ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm. The term shall not include (a) any shotgun shot or pellet not designed for use as the single, complete projectile load for one shotgun hull or casing, nor (b) any unloaded, non-metallic shotgun hull or casing not having a primer.


    As you can see, ammunition also includes components such as bullets, cases, primers, and powder. If you manufacture any of these, example being casting a bullet, you are manufacturing ammunition. If you do it for part of your livelihood and profit, you need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

    The ATF's opinion/way they enforce the law, is one incident of selling ammunition or components you manufacture is cause to believe you did it to attempt profit and livelihood. Livelihood can be supplemental income. Selling also includes not only common currency payments but also trades for services, goods, or promises for future compensation. Selling equals compensation. If you are compensated in any way shape or form, you are "selling".

    The FFL type you need for making and selling Ammo or Components is a Type 06 Manufacturer of Small Arms Ammunition Other Than Destructive Devices.
    The fee is/was $30 for three years. Back in the day at least.


    Also, what a lot of manufacturers don't get is that since you are manufacturing ammunition or components that also gets controlled by the US State Department under the ITAR or International Trade in Arms Regulations. And they are doing this for gunsmithing services like threading a barrel - enforced by the State Dept.

    In a nutshell, it states that manufacturers of ammunition, components, firearms, parts, scopes, etc are all manufacturers of "defensive articles". It does not matter if you are not exporting them. All manufacturers must register. There are no exceptions. The fact that you are only manufacturing articles for civilian use of domestic law enforcement use does not matter. The annual fee for ITAR registration is $2250 per year.

    Here's the straight up ITAR code:


    Sec. 122.1 Registration requirements.

    (a) General. Any person who engages in the United States in the business
    of either manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing
    defense services is required to register with the Office of Munitions
    Control. Manufacturers who do not engage in exporting must nevertheless
    register.



    Then there's liability insurance. You know to protect the caster in cast the buyer does something stupid.
    A basic liability policy is a few thousand dollars a year and goes up from there.
    je suis charlie

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  18. #38
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    All of that applies if I am running a business making and selling bullets, boolits, or any other ammo component. Selling some cast boolits to one person is hard to define as a 'business'. Especially if I am 'paid' in kind.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  19. #39
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    Running afoul of the ATF is not something you want to do. They're the ones making the rules and they like to change them all the time. If money changes hands you can bet they will consider you a business. Will they go after a guy selling billets to one person only? Unlikely but I sure don't want to take the chance.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master crabo's Avatar
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    You could also put a coat of one of the liquid Lube, 45/45/10 or BLL to add to the boolits you buy when you load them hot. Sometimes the lube isn't the greatest because they make it a little harder to stand up to shipping.
    Crabo

    Do not argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check