Decided to get a pneumatic pump rifle

[jcwit]

So long as reseal kits and piston arm parts are available and whatever other repair parts are needed a breakbarrel will for generations.

[Tracy]

Hatsen already makes a break barrel that meets that specification!

It's a gas cylinder and more than likely will last longer than a pumper.

They also have a springer for $123.00 bucks.

No flame intended, but I really, really doubt that. First, on what do you base your statement? Gas ram guns have only been out for a handful of years. So if you have some kind of arcane knowledge the rest of us aren't privy to, I'm sure we would all like to hear it.
Second, pumpers are already proven to last 50-plus years, and there are many, many of them out there that old and older, still soldiering away. One member of GTA forum has one that he has had since it was new, and it required no work until it was over 50 years old. There are also quite a few Crosman 101s that still shoot great, and none of them are less than 67 years old. Some are over 90 years old.
Third, I have personally owned cars that had nitrogen gas ram struts to hold a hatch open, and had the gas rams fail when the car was no more than 10-12 years old.

I could fix a leaking 392PA even if I couldn't get a factory seal kit.
Breakbarrels are known to get weak and worn and have their barrel start drooping. The springs are also known to weaken over time, and sometimes break. And they need an airgun-specific spring to fix them. I could reseal a pumper with squirrel hide and pellets that I recovered from the same squirrels.

[jcwit]

Well my Benjamin .177 pumper pooped out after 30 years IIRC. I replaced it with a new one 35 years ago, it now leaks, and yes the felt washers were lubed correctly.

None of my breakbarrels have given me any problems, even the early Chinese my wife & I sold at the local flea Market almost 40 years ago.

So yes I have more than a little experience with springers and gas rams also.

My air gun collection consists of 15 rifles & pistols, all the way from single pump pistols to PCP rifles.

My Crosman .22 pumper gave up the ghost way back when I was still in my teens.

Maybe I just got 3 lemons.

[Tracy]

Maybe you did. My main point though, is that pumpers don't really require any dedicated parts to fix. A factory seal kit makes it easier, but it can be done with hardware store parts. For some of the older designs, even the hardware store parts are not an absolute necessity.
Your Benjamin could almost certainly have been fixed, and for not much money either. I have a couple of old pumpers (a Benjamin and a Sheridan) that didn't hold air when I got them, and I fixed them by repeatedly oiling with non-detergent motor oil, pumping and dry firing. Both came around within a few days of this treatment. I also have a Benjamin that is just under 50 years old that would pump up and shoot, but weakly and with lots of retained air after shooting. I bought a seal kit and tore it down. Ended up just cleaning well, replacing the valve spring (because the one in the kit was weaker) and one lead washer. I still have the rest of the kit. I could have made the lead washer, and cut a coil off the original spring to weaken it.

Most people don't realize just how simple these pumpers are. And the new Benjamin 392s are even simpler; the entire valve comes out with no special tools and it doesn't even use seals per se. Just 3 o-rings that are not all that critical, a brass-on-brass valve poppet and seat (can be lapped together if it stopped sealing), and a Delrin check valve in a brass seat. That Delrin valve is so simple, it would be easy to replicate out of any number of different materials.

[jcwit]

Sure it could have been fixed, just as most anything that doesn't work can be fixed!

But the pump arm froze up so bad IIRC it sheared the rivit and the pump itself still refused to come out!

I have my own machine shop so I'm not a noob to making things work.

[jcwit]

Just to let you know I'm not helpless when it comes to air rifle,a few months ago I finished completely rebuilding Anschutz Match Model 220, this is a highly accurate, recoiless, side lever cocking, .177 --10 meter competition air rifle.

I went completely through it, replacing all seals and springs, even rebuilt the oil cylinder that made it recoiless.

So you see, I do have some experience in working with air guns!

[35 shooter]

Got the paint in the bore down very thin now. It's grouping 5 shots right together all the way to 20 yds.(as far as i've shot it so far).
Looks like this is going to be a shooter.

I think i'll stop cleaning on the paint at this point and just shoot the rest of it out, as long as it keeps grouping like this lol.
I noticed the thinner the paint gets, the tighter the crossman hps shoot, the discovery hps don't seem bothered by the little bit of paint left at all.
Can't tell much difference in the groups from either pellet though.
The discoveries may have a slight edge at this point, but either would do fine for hunting.

If i decide to order a peep sight for it, i may order some domed pellets for it,as all they have locally are the hollow points.
I'd like to try some polymags in it too.
Hope to get some time to do some longer range shooting with it this weekend.

[35 shooter]

I guess i need to mention another point about this new 392...it's very easy to pump compared to the one i had to take back. Even with 8 full power pumps on it, i could easily shoot this one all day.

The other one seemed to be well oiled on all the pivot points and the piston head, but was much harder to pump for sure....another reason i'm glad i took it back.
I think the folks at Pyramid hooked me up with exactly what i was looking for.

As far as working on or fixing an air gun ...they all look pretty straight forward and doable to me from the videos i've watched on it.
One feature i liked about the pneumatic type, was the fact i wouldn't need to make a compression jig to take it down if it needed cleaning, greasing, or broke down on me and did need repair. Seemed a little simpler to work on to me.
Springers look simple enough too though.
As long as the warranty is still good though, i'll probably just let Crosman take care of all that if it needs it.

[Multigunner]

My1377 was extremely difficult to pump when I first got it. Liberal applications of silicon oil , mineral oil, and ATF transmission fluid brought it around.

A friend brought an old model 1377 around that had been in storage for many years and had near zero pressure when pumping. I soaked its innards with ATF and it began improving with each pump up and shoot cycle till it began to work as good as new.

The old Benjamin pumpers are sought after in just about any condition because so long as no vital parts are missing or just plain destroyed these guns can be resealed. Its just a matter of looking up the specs on the specialized valve tear down tool needed and fabricating one.

The 1377 and 1322 based guns are marvels of simplicity and anyone with opposable thumbs can repair or upgrade these. Only hard to find tool is the extremely tiny allen wrench needed for the breech screw, the older models use a plotted head screw. I found the right allen wrench in a rather modestly priced kit at Auto Zone.

[GhostHawk]

I agree about the 13xx series. I bought a pair of 1322's some 3 years ago. I bought the shooters kits with the carbine stocks. 75$ ea seemed pretty well spent.

I put a laser on one for my wife, recently put a scope mount and Red Dot on mine.

Both will put 5 rounds into one ragged hole with a chair back to rest on at 20 feet.
Plenty good enough to take care of critters around the house or at need to put meat in the pot.

[35 shooter]

Trigger seems to have lightened a bit on pull now after about 100 to 150 shots.
Got it sighted in good at 20 yds. now about a 1/2" above the front sight.

Got a nice surprise with Gamo Magnum pointed 15.42 gr. pellets indoors at about 6 yds. tonight with the first 3 literally in 1 hole.
The Gamo's weren't shooting like that at all till i got most of the paint out....now they're driving a nail...at least at that range.

This little rifle didn't quite make me a kid again, but so far i do feel about 20 years younger lol.
Don't know why i waited 63 years to get one.

[Multigunner]

I'd tried some Gamo .177 10.5 gr pellets in my rifled 760 and other than a few fliers due to out of the round skirts they grouped very nicely with many one holers at 25 yards, but when I went to Wally World to buy some more I found every tin (they have clear plastic lids) was full of badly mutilated pellets. Some skirts were mashed into hour glass shapes and many pellet bodies had marks that looked like those left by the jaws of a pair of pliers. I doubt that could happen by accident. I think some disgruntled factory worker sabotaged a shipment of these.
Otherwise the design and hardened alloy of these are excellent features. Greatly increasing energy from the small .177 bore guns. they worked very well in my 38T revolver though due to the hard alloy pushing some of those with out of round skirts into the chambers took some force.

In .22 so far the most impressive pellet I've tried in my pump up carbine is the Benjamin Destroyer 14.3.
I filled some aluminum cans with water and at 50 feet the destroyer pellet basically destroyed those cans. Some sort of rebounding shockwave effect split the cans from top to bottom down the front and the remains of the cans were blown up like balloons. Never saw a pellet do that before. It was exactly the same for both cans so its not a fluke.

[15meter]

For paper punching I have been using Vogel wacutters I bought from the CMP. They shoot as well as full on RWS R10 match pellets in my vintage Benjamin. I won the air rifle league at my club with the Vogels and the Benjamin last month against some fairly high dollar match rifles.<br><br>And they are about half the cost of the R10's.

[35 shooter]

Thanks for the reports on the pellets you guys are using,,,i'm filing lots of things under my "need to know" list.

Yeah, i've seen some reviews on the gamo pellets complaining about flashing on the skirts, lots of deformed pellets, etc. Some of the more recent reports were better though about the qc on them, so maybe they're improving.
This particular tin of pellets "looks" like good quality.

I was really looking forward to some range time with the 392 tomorrow, but looks like some really bad weather is headed our way. Just have to wait and see.

[35 shooter]

Got a surprise today when only 4 pumps went through a steel dog food can at
10yds with crosman hp, and again at 25yds. 3 pumps went through 1 side at 10 yds. and put a dent in the other.
8 pumps was flying through it at 25 yds. in a perfect straight line side to side.....wish my chrony was working.

[35 shooter]

Finally got to do some longer range shooting and sighting in done today.
So far the crosman hps and the piranahs are the tops in accuracy.

Most of the shooting was done from a rested position just laying the rifle across my rear bag. Took me quite a few shots to get satisfied with the zero, and finally left it about 1/2" high at 30 yds. above the front post.

I shot several groups at 30 to 45 yds. and pretty well kept 5 shots anywhere from 1/2" to 1 1/2" in height, to 1/2 to 3/4" in width....plenty good enough for me with the iron sights that came with the gun.

Offhand wasn't as pretty on the targets, but i rested my eyes for a while, then set some cans up with just the bottom ends showing at 40 to 50 yds., and from a sitting or kneeling offhand position, had no trouble at all drilling them.

I wasn't sure about the performance untill today, but i must say, i wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone considering one of these to go for it.
Just be sure to check for paint overspray in the muzzle, get it out the best you can, and your good to go then.

It's not hold sensitve at all, and with a good scope, will be a squirrels worst nightmare....heck, it already is.

[35 shooter]

Need some opinions from some of you more experienced with air rifles.

I'm considering ordering the air venturi scope mount for the 392. I was going to order an air gun rated scope for it also.
Since this gun is a pneumatic without the slam bang and vibration of a spring or gas piston air rifle...do you guys think an old m8 6 power leupold would hold up on this one?

This old scope is not parallax adjustable, but is clear as a bell from about 15 yds. on out.
A four power leapers air gun rated scope is cheap enough for sure, but i already have this one sitting in the closet not mounted on anything.

I wouldn't consider putting a non air rated scope on a springer, but the pneumatic rifles shoot so smoothly i thought it might hold up ok?

[enfield]

For long range fun I raise the sight on my 392 and hang an old frying pan in a tree at 100 yards. Trajectory is similar to BP cartridge.

[Tracy]

Pneumatics are not hard on scopes at all. Any scope that will work on a .22 rimfire should be just fine.

[GhostHawk]

Might want to consider a williams peep sight for it.

I have not scoped my Sheridan. I did buy a set of the blocks that clamp on the barrel. But Sheridan barrels are brass, did not want to squeeze it.

Many of my other air rifles are either scoped or have Red Dot sights.

With any of the pumpers you should not get enough recoil to bother the scope.
Assuming you are not spraying flammable materials behind the pellet.

I have a couple of Bushnell Banner's on air rifles and have experienced no problems.

If you are going to put a scope on it I would recomend one with Mil dot reticule. This will make it a lot easier to learn to adjust hold over/under at different ranges, power levels.

Amazon sells a very nice Hammers 3x9x32 AO with a one piece mount for 60$ that has that reticule. Just one more thing to consider.