Deer hunting with a 357mag and 44mag rifle

[44man]

Most PA forest deer are so small an empty beer can can clock them. Have to go southwest for real deer. Washington or greene county. Go to Elk county where an 8 point rack can be covered with fingers touching. I have taken does over 200# where I live and in Ohio. Seen deer in Ohio over 420#. I shot many, many deer in Warren county with bows and a 80# deer was something. Clarion was better but in the winter they ate hemlock.

[NSB]

Most PA forest deer are so small an empty beer can can clock them. Have to go southwest for real deer. Washington or greene county. Go to Elk county where an 8 point rack can be covered with fingers touching. I have taken does over 200# where I live and in Ohio. Seen deer in Ohio over 420#. I shot many, many deer in Warren county with bows and a 80# deer was something. Clarion was better but in the winter they ate hemlock.

I've shot deer in Pa's late muzzle loading season (back when you had to hunt on state game lands) that actually tasted like hemlock. They would be climbing all over the large rocks around the hemlock trees and eating the branch tips. Hard to believe the taste could get in the meat. Sorry to change the subject, but I thought some might find this interesting.

[trapper9260]

I've shot deer in Pa's late muzzle loading season (back when you had to hunt on state game lands) that actually tasted like hemlock. They would be climbing all over the large rocks around the hemlock trees and eating the branch tips. Hard to believe the taste could get in the meat. Sorry to change the subject, but I thought some might find this interesting.

For you to state that remind me of what one of my sisters told me .She had some deer from MO around where she live that was given to her and then gave her some from here in IA and she said the one from IA is better then the one from MO. Because for the time the ones here are caught is when they mainly feed on corn and soybean compare to where she is that i think on trees and brush.

[44man]

Soil is important too. Ohio had great soil and minerals. Not bad here either.

[Ramjet-SS]

Agree. Deer angles are never exact. Shoot behind the shoulder and exit the off shoulder to destroy it and guys will say I did not "place" the shot. Sorry but I am not that good. I can't tell 90° from 98° or from 87°. To expect perfect means you never shoot.
I hate the placement junk. You might with a rifle and a rest but I shoot a stinking revolver. To shoot a deer at 50 in the head is so stupid so I shoot the chest. Neck if right. Spine and head is too small.

Yea too hit a deer in the head you can practice that. Blow a ballon up 4" and put it on a 16" string on a windy day and try and hit at 100 yards. 😆 Yup brain is 4" in diameter.

[Ramjet-SS]

Hemlock or not cut it thick and marinade it and hit hard for short time really hot both sides serve it medium rare and it is outstanding.

[44man]

Hemlock or not cut it thick and marinade it and hit hard for short time really hot both sides serve it medium rare and it is outstanding.

Deer were good from there. But deer in Warren county were iffy. One would be good and the next so awful nothing saved the meat, same size from the same place.
Even Ohio was iffy, never had a bad doe or young buck but put an arrow through an old one once and he stunk. Nothing worked and a pressure cooker would not leave out the chainsaw. Meat was rank. Big buck was so old he was gray, never again. I am a confirmed Bambi hunter. I would rather have lamb chops then mutton. Friend gave me meat from an old milk cow once---OUCH, what junk.

[44man]

I watch trophy hunters once in a while on TV but I bet meat is tossed. Why would anyone kill an animal if you toss the meat? They lose one at night and spend the next day to find it. Just antlers. Meat is no good.

[trapper9260]

Deer were good from there. But deer in Warren county were iffy. One would be good and the next so awful nothing saved the meat, same size from the same place.
Even Ohio was iffy, never had a bad doe or young buck but put an arrow through an old one once and he stunk. Nothing worked and a pressure cooker would not leave out the chainsaw. Meat was rank. Big buck was so old he was gray, never again. I am a confirmed Bambi hunter. I would rather have lamb chops then mutton. Friend gave me meat from an old milk cow once---OUCH, what junk.

I had some in the past that said that you will kill Bambi. I said how can I kill a cartoon.They drop it. I do not kill any Bambi ,but young deer or what ever show up for me. I am not after the rack.if one show up I shoot it. Otherwise i take what shows. It is good eating.

[bluejay75]

Good to read the positive reports on the use of the .357, especially in rifles.

Not that I have or am going to get a .357 rifle, my tastes running more to the .44, but my son has a 77/357 RUGER for which I am casting bullets. Good to hear positive deer hunting reports. I'll pass on the positive reports to Him.

I do own .357, but only in shorter arms.

Now, sure hope to take a deer with my 77/44 this Fall. The 275gr Wide Flat Nose cast is highly to cause double sided leakage!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I have both a 77/44 and 77/357. Both required shims and one required a trigger sear for great accuracy. Both my 44s can touch 3 44 240 XTP's (23.3 H110) at 100 yards and Im a 2-3 inches with the NOE 432-278 WFN (21.2 H110)(loaded to the max length for the magazine).Cast load could be tighter, but I am keeping bullets within a 2 grain +/- range.

77/357 likes 18 grains of 300MP with almost any 158 jword bullet. MOA load and fast. Shoots Lee 358-200 RF just as well...a little over an inch at 100 (14.5 H110)

[Hickok]

I have both a 77/44 and 77/357. Both required shims and one required a trigger sear for great accuracy. Bo

Bluejay, you talking about shimming between the two piece bolt?

My brother has a stainless heavy barrel Ruger bolt action in .22 hornet that could be out-shot with a tight patched smooth-bore musket when it came out of the box. I shimmed up the two piece bolt and it groups 5 into an inch @ 100 now.

.357 Mag in rifle or revolver works great on deer with proper boolits placed in the heart lung area. I prefer 160-180 gr with a good meplat.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, shim the bolt and a new trigger shear that made the trigger awesome. So Light I needed to put the factory spring back in.

Because my .44s will be cast bullet guns, I am getting 100yd deer groups with the .444 Wide Flat Nose 275gr from an Accurate Mold.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Iowa Fox]

Trapper you've got some time to play around with both. Load some shoot some with every bullet you cast for and it will tell you which one to take hunting. Don't just shoot holes in paper shoot into trees or old post and see what you get for penetration. Fill some old milk jugs and see which one gives you the biggest splat. Both will work but for serious killing I switched from the 357 to the 44 years ago. With the fields worked up now is a great time to shoot at dirt clods and spot your own hits.

[bluejay75]

[QUOTE=Hickok;4029638]Bluejay, you talking about shimming between the two piece bolt?

Yes sir. I do not consider myself mechanically inclined....so it is a very easy job to do.

If your brass bulges with moderate to hot loads, you need to shim the bolt.

Didn't matter on lower pressure loads as accuracy was ok, but when you step up to 25K pressures and over it made a world of difference.

[Hickok]

[QUOTE=bluejay75;4035452]

Bluejay, you talking about shimming between the two piece bolt?

Yes sir. I do not consider myself mechanically inclined....so it is a very easy job to do.

If your brass bulges with moderate to hot loads, you need to shim the bolt.

Didn't matter on lower pressure loads as accuracy was ok, but when you step up to 25K pressures and over it made a world of difference.

I agree with you Bluejay. It is an easy fix to shim the two piece bolt, and it made a world of difference in my brother's Ruger 77/22 Hornet. Seems Ruger could get on top of this problem, as some of their rifles with two piece bolts shoot well and others don't.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hickok,

I hear ya about RUGER getting on top of this bolt shimming situation, but it would add some hand fitting to the cost and if we are honest, those of us that care are probably in the minority.

I found the process very simple, but did need to back off and punt during the process.

Being a, " if a little is good more is better" type person - I hate 1/4 bolts! - I thought I'd shim the bolt as much as possible while still allowing the two bolt halves to turn smoothly.

Hmmmmmm!!!! didn't take long to figure out that that was not going to work and there needs to be some movement between the parts to allow the bolt to turn in the action and allow for lock up.

So, I backed off and through the try and fit process quickly came to the point where the bolt has as much slop removed as possible while still allowing the bolt to lock up in the action.

When I bought the shim kit, I also bought the new trigger shear, also buying both for my son who owns a RUGER 77/357.

I think that I mentioned earlier that the trigger was sooooooooooo light using the spring that came with the shear that I needed to trade it out for the factory spring. The combination of new Volquartsen shear and factory trigger spring was just right, while with the new spring I had the discharge slip up on me a number of times while testing loads on the bench.

Now, the slop is gone in the trigger and the trigger is EVER so nice!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[dakota]

I'd use my 310 grain Lee bullet out of 44 - (my choice). But anything over 240 grain in the 44 with a wide flat nose would work well (for me). I also cast bullets for the 357 and if I were to use the 357, I'd use the heaviest bullet with the widest flat nose I could find. The longest barrel in my 357's = 4", so that limits my experience. I don't care for J-bullets in either cartridge for deer.
Both cartridges are ***** cats in rifles, so recoil isn't an issue.
The velocity will drop with distance, but the mass of the bullet remains the same. A 310-320 grain bullet at 800 fps will still go through a deer. Probably also with a heavy 357 bullet. Jacketed bullets suck in either cartridge, IMHO.
If you choose a 357, you'll be OK too, I think. Good luck with your choice and practice at different distances out to the maximum distance you'll likely shoot your deer.

[trapper9260]

Thank you Iowa Fox for your help and also dakota I would use cast for hunting .Easy for me in the end.I learn from this site that I can do more with cast then Jacket also I have more to use in cast.And dose not cost as much also after I got set up.I like to use cast any ways.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Recoil can be an issue in a .44 rifle, depending ----------------

My first .44 rifle was a Marlin that I should still have!, but using my 310gr Wide Flat Nose cast from an LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) mold with the same AA#9 load that gets right at 1300fps from my 5.5" RUGER RedHawk, the .44 rifle BEAT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem ----------- the short stock of the Marlin that put my thumb in contact with my nose during recoil.

I'd go for hours after a shooting session checking to see if I had a nose bleed because that is what it felt like!

CURE -------------- add a nice thick recoil pad to increase the butt stock length. Problem solved.

The combination of a lot of drop in the Marlin butt stock with the low head position for use of iron sights was a real PAINFUL negative.

With my RUGER 77/44, I bought the rifle slightly used from a down sizing friend and he had installed a slip on recoil pad on the plastic stock which I have never removed as the rifle fits me with the added pad.

So, recoil depends not so much on the rather mild level of recoil from the .44 handgun cartridge fired from a rifle as the stock fit to the shooter, length of the Butt stock and head position.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bowfishn]

Both will work, the 44 mag is my choice, has the advantage of larger wound channel and more energy at distance. I have a CVA Scout single shot rifle 22" 1-20 twist, it throws my Handgun loads 295 gr GCHP " .44 mag / 444 marlin HP mold from MP Molds "out at 1850 fps. Velocity checked with my Magnetospeed, zeroed at 100,
Ballistics Results

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	1850	2242	-1.5	0	0	0	0	0
25	1767	2046	0	0	0	0	0	0
50	1688	1867	0.8	-1.5	-0.4	0	0	0
75	1612	1702	0.8	-1	-0.3	0	0	0
100	1539	1550	0	0	0	0	0	0
125	1469	1413	-1.7	1.3	0.4	0	0	0
150	1402	1288	-4.4	2.8	0.8	0	0	0
175	1340	1175	-8.3	4.5	1.3	0	0	0
200	1281	1075	-13.3	6.4	1.9	0	0	0