Deer hunting with a 357mag and 44mag rifle

[44man]

Darn, me too. I love the .44. Not ranting about a .357 if done right. I still think it is lack of boolit weight and penetration with the .357. Even the .44 with wrong bullets can be a problem. I started with the 240 XTP and shot 3 deer with them. OK, they died but I could watch them until down at over 60 yards. But other places will have a deer out of sight in a jump. I back tracked the deer and found no blood. I recovered the bullets. Perfect mush rooms. But a deer in the thick will not be found. If you can't see deer fall just how do you find them? You need blood.
I stopped the fallacy right quick and went to the LBT 320 LNGC and had blood a blind man can follow. Then the Lee 310. You need two holes.
But long ago a survey was made with revolver hunters and those with the .357 lost 50% of deer hit and the .44 had 100% recovery. For me hunting starts at a 4. Bigger is even better.
If you never lose one with the .357, you do things right, are lucky or have not shot enough deer. I have over 180 deer kills with revolvers based on when I could use them. I could not in Ohio back then but it was legal in WV when I moved here. I never used a .357, woodchuck gun.
A nine, get real. Why do they hold so many rounds? It is because a BG needs multiple hits. He will still survive in many cases.
The old .38 cops used got cops killed after shooting a BG.
Deer never bother me, I do not get "buck fever". I shoot better at deer then paper. I was an archer and have something over 260 with bows and well over 560 with all. Deer control with free tags on farms and orchards showed what each gun did.
What do I trust more then a .357? An arrow or a RB from a flint lock.
Some use a 12 GA slug but say a .50 revolver is too much.

[jmort]

" I never used a .357, woodchuck gun."

What I love is all the new information in these posts. Open-minded and ready for discussion. Nothing ever repeated. Completely agree, I threw all my .357s in the trash. The Doctrinaire.

[44man]

What would I carry? A .357 or an ACP of course. Both can also kill deer but just why? So can a .22 with a head shot. But the numbers of deer I killed in PA with .22 bullets healed in capsules on chest cavities is legend. Seems squirrel hunters shot at deer or poachers from the road. Thinking a .22 could make free meat with a lung shot. I read of one guy wanting to use a .38 for deer, please stay home. Next will be a .25 auto. You forget the powerful .38 S&W.
I am made fun off for using large caliber revolvers but I eat good. Better then you crawling on your knees trying to find a deer. Most of you would use a .50 or .54 ML but a .475 revolver is too big. How many use a .410 slug for deer? You use a 12 of course.
I never understand when you need a 30-06 or .300 mag but cuss my choice of revolvers.

[44man]

A good deer rifle is a 30-30 or .35 Rem. Can't go wrong but a .357 revolver is not a .35 rifle. Sorry, can't be done. I remember when it came out and many animals were shot with it. Most powerful revolver ever! Then S&W came out with the .44 mag, most powerful that can be made---Yeah, right.
Some use more then needed but many go backwards to prove some stupid point. I fully expect a deer kill with a Red Ryder BB gun.

[jmort]

"I am made fun off for using large caliber revolvers"

No you are not. I think I can speak for every member, large caliber revolvers are cool, not for everyone, but way cool.

For me the issue is your complete diregard for what other members want to do. What they want to do, not what you do, or what you did 30 years ago or whatever. You don't seem to understand that not everyone wants to do what you do. I am happy to max out with a .357 mag in handguns. I do not contend or pretend it is the be all or end all of calibers. But why make comments like:

" I never used a .357, woodchuck gun."

"I read of one guy wanting to use a .38 for deer, please stay home. Next will be a .25 auto. "

You really think that is a thing???

The .44 mag wadcutter thread is another example. Members wanted to discuss .44 mag wadcutters and you would not shut up about it. None of you business what others want to do or discuss. A single post would have been enough to make your point. A single post would have sufficed, something like, "I don't use .44 mag wadcutters, but if you all want to discuss it, great." Instead we got the history of your life, again, and the same old, same old. It gets old. You know more than most members have forgotten, but that does not give you the right to be The Doctrinaire

[44man]

It is from serious work and testing. Some things do not work.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good is always good and marginal, even if possible is always marginal.. There is no substitute for good/adequate.

I once saw a doe taken with a .22LR. Two shot at, the second of which was later found, to get one dead on the ground.

With a .357, I'd feel much better if the platform was a rifle and even better if the bullet was as heavy as that firearm will stabilize and much better yet if the bullet happens to be one with as large a meplat as will reliably feed in and through the firearm smoothly.

I have .357s as I have .22s, but have never felt that they were anything but marginal at very best for a game animal.

I know, just personal opinion, but yes, that is my opinion as there is never such a thing as too dead.

I hope that those who have successfully used a .357 on deer sized game, continue to have such results as the alternative is not good to think about.

Personally, I'll go with the thought that it is MUCH better to use a firearm that will get er done should things go poorly - poor shot placement/critter moved as the trigger broke etc. etc. this is after all "hunting" and "things" happen - then a cartridge that gets er done if everything goes right. In those push comes to shove situations, there is no substitute for heavier and deeper penetrating bullets to hopefully pull the fat out of the fire.

There is a poster on the Cast Boolits forum that at times gets flack/stones thrown his way, but his game taken numbers in the hundreds of animals, with a verity of cartridges/calibers and some folk may not like his thoughts just as 44man's thoughts or those of Elmer Keith has their distractors.

But even though your or my ideas may not mesh with their voice of experience brought about through years and years hunting/shooting and critter after critter taken, the averages are clearly stacked in their favor.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[jmort]

This "logic" leads to the conclusion that we all need 700 Nitros
Who are you going to believe your lying eyes or a Doctrinaire

[NSB]

Thinking you can make up for a badly placed shot by using a larger caliber is a mistake. Hitting a deer in the gut with a big gun isn't as good as hitting it in the heart/lungs with a smaller one. One is better off with what they can shoot the best. There's nothing "undergunned" about a well placed shot with a 357mag. Too many hunters think they'll kill a deer with muzzle energy even with a poor shot.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well then, let us all begin hunting with .22LR!

CDOC

[jmort]

Well then, let us all begin hunting with .22LR!

CDOC

Why???
Has anyone proposed this???
I know it is done, but no member here that I know of advocates deer hunting with .22 LR
Why is it that threads get clogged up with B.S. trolling and stirring the pot???
This is a thread about "Deer Hunting with a .357 mag and 44 mag"
Perfectly legit subject for discussion

[reloader28]

I thought we were talking about rifles not handguns???? How did this get switched to handguns?

Even so, I think the Lee 158 RF would do very well in a revolver too and had thought of using it this fall. Used my 44 Vaquero with a 260 gr cast SWC this year and it performed even better than my expectations.

[jmort]

"I thought we were talking about rifles not handguns???? How did this get switched to handguns?"

That is a good question.

There is much to learn from this:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/pa...literature.htm

[44man]

Boolit construction is more important in a rifle. Added velocity and energy means little if the boolit is not correct. Too many fallacies out there that are just read and repeated.
But I have to go back to the revolver for a little. I have the BFR 45-70 and run a WLN to 1632 fps. I shot many deer and was losing them with double lung hits, you will not stop my boolit but I found no blood trails. Gave up and kept reading I needed a larger meplat so I made a WFN mold. Same stinking thing, in fact it was worse and I finally recovered a deer at 200 to 300 yards. I opened her and found a clean hole through both lungs and they were still pink. So much for the meplat idea. When someone says you just need a flat nose I roll off my seat.
I then shot a deer with a softer boolit with a HP and destroyed half the deer. Gave that up and went to a Hornady for the last deer and it worked best.
So you think a flat nose and more speed will be better from a rifle.
I can go a step more. I got the .500 JRH and made a WFN boolit. Spotted a deer too far and made her come to me, at 30 yards I busted her in the front, she went up and fell on her belly, got up and went another 30 yards. No damage in the lungs and it was past the diaphragm where the mess started. I then shot another behind the shoulder and lost her, no blood at all. I spent hours looking. I sat down, seen a buck on the wrong side at 120 yards, shot him off hand and he ran towards me 100 yards, turned into the woods and fell, 120 yard run. It got dark as I gutted, flashed my light and seen white back in the woods. It was the first deer. Again, so much for the big meplat. Keep telling jokes. I cast softer noses and turned the JRH into a monster killing machine.
I have meplats for sale, pay postage only.
I use enough gun but it still has not proven easy. I never killed a deer with my keyboard yet.
The number of times I have listened to things here that failed makes me sick when a deer is lost.
Don't tell me I made bad hits, been at this game too long. The world is full of armchair experts.
I spent my life proving stuff wrong with revolvers but admit being stupid at times and listening to what is said. I have reversed 100% and listen to nobody. The only truth is a deer at your feet.

[Blammer]

I've killed deer with 357 mag rifle and 44mag rifle. Both work well.

180gr or 158gr FP cast will shoot through a deer easy enough.
200gr cast 44's and up will shoot end to end on deer, no worries there.

I'd grab whatever one is handy and go hunting.

[44man]

I've killed deer with 357 mag rifle and 44mag rifle. Both work well.

180gr or 158gr FP cast will shoot through a deer easy enough.
200gr cast 44's and up will shoot end to end on deer, no worries there.

I'd grab whatever one is handy and go hunting.

Yes of course, just the right boolit. I have made mistakes in both directions but sadly only the animal has the final say. We can change what we shoot. You would not use an elephant bullet on deer or the reverse, same with cast.
Does not matter the gun or caliber and nothing wrong with the .357 if you do it right.

[Ramjet-SS]

357 Rifle with a good 158 Cast with a nice wide Meplat cast to the proper alloy works well on deer 75 yards and under with open sights for me. Every shot on every deer has different set of circumstances. Some of cicumstances are hard to overcome and it seems 44 man is saying the proper large bore cast bullet will help you overcome those variety of circumstances.

Circumstances include but are not limited to.

Shot angle.
Shot distance.
Deer size
Deer disposition i.e. still moving , on alert, figgity etc etc.
Shooter postion.
Shooter expereince
Shooters ability.
Open sights
scoped
Time of day
Temprature
Weather in general
Brush
no brush
more than one deer or size of the horns.

That said the 357 Rifle is more than capable to take game and as with any gun it can do so effectively in a rifle within its limitations.

Rules they apply to any and all situation or combination there of.

On on personal note I absolutely love shooting my Henry Carbine in 357 and would not hesitate to take it deer hunting sitting in my tree stand.

[44man]

Agree. Deer angles are never exact. Shoot behind the shoulder and exit the off shoulder to destroy it and guys will say I did not "place" the shot. Sorry but I am not that good. I can't tell 90° from 98° or from 87°. To expect perfect means you never shoot.
I hate the placement junk. You might with a rifle and a rest but I shoot a stinking revolver. To shoot a deer at 50 in the head is so stupid so I shoot the chest. Neck if right. Spine and head is too small.

[psweigle]

I have a ruger 77/357 and I shoot 158 gr rnfp lee boolits for deer. They kill. I've used 180gr commercial cast rnfp boolits as well, and they too kill. PA deer are rarely taken much over 70 yards, so I have never felt under-gunned here with a 357 magnum.

[quail4jake]

Ditto! That NOE 180 gr cast about BHN 12 and pushed to about 1400 fps with IMR4227 is a recipe for venison! Remember size to .360 if you're Marlin microgrooving! Now go "choot 'em!"

Same here with the noe.
.357 kills deer easily.
That noe slug punches right thru them and they leak out both sides.