H&R 1871 Throat Reaming

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I just scored a nice deal on a Buffalo Classic to add to my collection. I plan on using longer and heavier bullets with it and throat is cut too short if any exists at all. Does anyone have experience with reaming the throat a little bit forward to accommodate the 535gr pills?

Is this more of a gunsmith's job or can one do it by themselves?

shoe

[wgr]

I got a reamer over at graybeards outdoor sight had my smith do it took him about 15min. I can load a 535gr boolit with ease

[three50seven]

Interesting, I have a late production H&R Handi in 45/70 and have loaded up to 600gr boolits with no issues. They must have changed how they cut the throats at some point.

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[iplaywithnoshoes]

I got a reamer over at graybeards outdoor sight had my smith do it took him about 15min. I can load a 535gr boolit with ease

They seem to have a great selection of reamers to rent. I'll check it out. Have you had any problems with the shallow rifling? I have never seen grooves that that in a barrel.

Interesting, I have a late production H&R Handi in 45/70 and have loaded up to 600gr boolits with no issues. They must have changed how they cut the throats at some point.

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I don't know when mine was produced but I'll probably load some Postells tonight and see what happens.

[Skipper]

Shoe, I throated my Buffalo Classic and my regular .45-70 an additional .240" using the 4D reamer. You can do it yourself...takes about 10 minutes. Just dip the throater in cutting oil and go slow. You can turn it by hand using a tap stock; you might need a reamer extension.

https://4drentals.com/products/reamer-rentals/throater/

They waive the deposit if you use a credit card.

[mohican]

I got a reamer over at graybeards outdoor sight had my smith do it took him about 15min. I can load a 535gr boolit with ease

How does said 535 grain boolit shoot in the Buffalo Classic?

[Skipper]

How does said 535 grain boolit shoot in the Buffalo Classic?

Using 20:1 and sized .459-.460, it shoots great with black or 4759 if the throat is extended.

[Don McDowell]

You might want to measure the twist in that barrel. If it's a 20 in twist, 500 gr bullets will be about as heavy as you can count on stabilizing consistently.
the 45-70 sort of runs short of horsepower when going heavier than the various 535 gr bullets, and the recoil in that BC with the postel's isn't exactly pleasant.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

You might want to measure the twist in that barrel. If it's a 20 in twist, 500 gr bullets will be about as heavy as you can count on stabilizing consistently.
the 45-70 sort of runs short of horsepower when going heavier than the various 535 gr bullets, and the recoil in that BC with the postel's isn't exactly pleasant.

That was definitely something I was thinking about as well. It's a 1:20 and it's stabilizing the 475gr quite well. My Postells are dropping in at 515gr with Lyman #2 (the cheapest alloy I can get). These should work but they may be at the limit like you said and with have significant recoil.
I contacted a few smiths in IL and a lot of them seem to have less machining experience than I do. I run a greater risk ruining the barrel's accuracy changing the chamber I think.

I may just stick feeding the Postells to my 1:14 Encore. It's a heavier gun and likely more conducive to bench shooting.

shoe

[Don McDowell]

I haven't really seen a 535 gr bullet do anything out of a 45-70 that a 480 gr won't.

[John Boy]

How does said 535 grain boolit shoot in the Buffalo Classic?

With 70gr FFg powder, accuracy is very good to 1000yds
The Classic being my 1st BPCR and being green & wet behind the ears - it's initial range test with the 500gr Big Lube bullet, 52gr of Triple Seven - put 5 holes in the 7 ring at 600yds ... measured 2 3/4 x 3 1/2" with 3 holes that could be covered with a silver dollar. Two club members witnessed the target

[EDG]

You don't need to do anything to shoot heavy bullets in your H&R. The typical long nose BPCR bullet will extend way into the rifling. That is because the land diameter is larger than the diameter than the nose of the bullet.

If you have one of those lever gun 500 grain bullet molds like the RCBS 600 you will find it will not work unless deep seated. But no one uses that bullet except lever gun shooters since they cannot use a long nose bullet anyway. The nose is intentionally short to feed through the magazine.



Instead of the lever gun style bullets use the BPCR bullet styles designed for single shot rifles. The nose is about .499 and will fit into the land diameter.
Cutting the throat is unnecessary.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

You don't need to do anything to shoot heavy bullets in your H&R. The typical long nose BPCR bullet will extend way into the rifling. That is because the land diameter is larger than the diameter than the nose of the bullet.

If you have one of those lever gun 500 grain bullet molds like the RCBS 600 you will find it will not work unless deep seated. But no one uses that bullet except lever gun shooters since they cannot use a long nose bullet anyway. The nose is intentionally short to feed through the magazine.



Instead of the lever gun style bullets use the BPCR bullet styles designed for single shot rifles. The nose is about .499 and will fit into the land diameter.
Cutting the throat is unnecessary.

EDG,

Agreed, with 500gr flat nosed like you mentioned, smokeless powder loads work quite well through this throat because the ogives are very similar to a 405gr flat nose and powder capacity is not an issue. I will check with my Lyman Postell mold to see if that's what if the nose on my mold is small enough like you said. I know that my 459-500-3R, which is not authentic BPCR at all, does work but only because it has a short, pointy nose. Do you typically allow for some jump or is jamming a little on the lands okay with cast bullets?

shoe

[EDG]

Your Postell is designed to seat the bullet long with the nose acting as a bore rider..

I never jump anything with cast bullets in single shots.
I expand my cases using an expander the same diameter of the bullet. The only neck grip I get is from the spring back of the brass.
I seat my bullets about .050 too long to close the breech. Then I am able to push the case home with my thumb and close the breech block.
Thumb force is the amount of jamming that my bullets get when seated into the rifling.

EDG,

Agreed, with 500gr flat nosed like you mentioned, smokeless powder loads work quite well through this throat because the ogives are very similar to a 405gr flat nose and powder capacity is not an issue. I will check with my Lyman Postell mold to see if that's what if the nose on my mold is small enough like you said. I know that my 459-500-3R, which is not authentic BPCR at all, does work but only because it has a short, pointy nose. Do you typically allow for some jump or is jamming a little on the lands okay with cast bullets?

shoe

[iplaywithnoshoes]

Your Postell is designed to seat the bullet long with the nose acting as a bore rider..

I never jump anything with cast bullets in single shots.
I expand my cases using an expander the same diameter of the bullet. The only neck grip I get is from the spring back of the brass.
I seat my bullets about .050 too long to close the breech. Then I am able to push the case home with my thumb and close the breech block.
Thumb force is the amount of jamming that my bullets get when seated into the rifling.

Good to know! I just checked yesterday and the round actually fit with full length brass! I'll give a couple of these a try with your method and see what happens! Are you doing this with black or smokeless?

shoe

[EDG]

I use smokeless at BP velocities. My loads run 1100 to 1300 fps using SR4759

Good to know! I just checked yesterday and the round actually fit with full length brass! I'll give a couple of these a try with your method and see what happens! Are you doing this with black or smokeless?

shoe

[rfd]

everyone has a their own personal, diff'rent version story about guns like the buff classic. i've had 2 of 'em (or was it 3?), also my first intro to bpcr and what started a long journey that has led to only loading and shooting black powder in all my long guns.

the h&r bc is a good gun, with good accuracy potential that's slightly stymied by a hefty trigger pull and concerns with installing a tang sight on a break open, two plane action. other than that, and adding some more weight into the butt stock, for the most part it's a shooter that some folks laugh at 'til it beats them at the target butts.

you'll have no problem loading, chambering, and having the 1:20 twist stabilizing a lyman postel. forget about using white powder, use real black powder dropped into fire formed brass (swiss 1-1/2f, oe 1-1/2f are well proven powders). if long distance is yer game then you'll want that long and heavy bullet, so forget the lightweights under 500 grains. there are other factors and concerns with the bc and long distance bpcr in general. you may want to consider ppb's - wish i did from the get-go - SO much better for me (and others!) than the greasers. whatever goes down best for ya, do enjoy the bpcr ride!

[Skipper]

One more thing...it helps to smear a little lube on the bore-ride section of the bullet if you're using the 535. Without it, I get some leading at the 28" mark.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I use smokeless at BP velocities. My loads run 1100 to 1300 fps using SR4759

I'll try to get a hold of some to try. Since I want to neck size only slightly, with compressed charges, this seating method sounds like a good option.

everyone has a their own personal, diff'rent version story about guns like the buff classic. i've had 2 of 'em (or was it 3?), also my first intro to bpcr and what started a long journey that has led to only loading and shooting black powder in all my long guns.

the h&r bc is a good gun, with good accuracy potential that's slightly stymied by a hefty trigger pull and concerns with installing a tang sight on a break open, two plane action. other than that, and adding some more weight into the butt stock, for the most part it's a shooter that some folks laugh at 'til it beats them at the target butts.

you'll have no problem loading, chambering, and having the 1:20 twist stabilizing a lyman postel. forget about using white powder, use real black powder dropped into fire formed brass (swiss 1-1/2f, oe 1-1/2f are well proven powders). if long distance is yer game then you'll want that long and heavy bullet, so forget the lightweights under 500 grains. there are other factors and concerns with the bc and long distance bpcr in general. you may want to consider ppb's - wish i did from the get-go - SO much better for me (and others!) than the greasers. whatever goes down best for ya, do enjoy the bpcr ride!

I was going to say, I was floored by the gun's initial accuracy with some 405gr Trail Boss loads. I can't wait to start with holy black. I'll need to add a little weight first like you said, as well as contour the buttstock a bit. The skinner sight I have on the back should do fine for now, perhaps I may install a tang sight if I find one for the right price. As for the trigger, I got so used to sloppy and heavy triggers that pull weight and takeup doesn't matter to me anymore.

As for paper patching, I'll need to find some time to perfect the technique. I know it's really finicky to get into right away.

One more thing...it helps to smear a little lube on the bore-ride section of the bullet if you're using the 535. Without it, I get some leading at the 28" mark.

I was thinking if giving this a try as well, since I get a bit of leading in the throat of my Encore with Postells. If I start with a lightly oiled bore and light loads, I'm usually able to keep leading at bay temporarily for heavier stuff.

[EDG]

SR4759 has been discontinued so finding it can be a problem. 5744 is a good alternate.

I'll try to get a hold of some to try. Since I want to neck size only slightly, with compressed charges, this seating method sounds like a good option.



I was going to say, I was floored by the gun's initial accuracy with some 405gr Trail Boss loads. I can't wait to start with holy black. I'll need to add a little weight first like you said, as well as contour the buttstock a bit. The skinner sight I have on the back should do fine for now, perhaps I may install a tang sight if I find one for the right price. As for the trigger, I got so used to sloppy and heavy triggers that pull weight and takeup doesn't matter to me anymore.

As for paper patching, I'll need to find some time to perfect the technique. I know it's really finicky to get into right away.



I was thinking if giving this a try as well, since I get a bit of leading in the throat of my Encore with Postells. If I start with a lightly oiled bore and light loads, I'm usually able to keep leading at bay temporarily for heavier stuff.