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Thread: bore wiper VFG felt wads ...

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
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    Michael,
    the plot thickens - 2 choices! what does gullo use?
    gullo might have discovered this by accident.
    I remember the story of him fouling out when blowtubing, and running around trying to borrow a cleaning rod.
    the big question was what he would have paid for such a rod.
    the general concensus was "what the market would bear".
    mpro7 might have been all ha had to wipe with, and it worked.
    don,
    I am currently experimenting with 5:1 cutting oil solution (Castrol) for the reason we are discussing here.
    seems to work well.
    this only with pp though.
    I am beginning to think we have yet another reason why pp bullets are easier.
    just clean the bore well and shoot, summer or winter, same routine.
    I used murphy's for a while and it wipes extremely well, pushing easier than any cutting oil solution.
    it does however encourage rusting blocks and other parts.
    it also leaves a strange coating on the interior of hot barrels.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    I started a thread on mpro-7 on the Shiloh forum after coming back from Phoenix and seeing it on the equipment list. I didn't ask Jon or Dave about it then, but John Venhouse responded to the post. Eric Halter ( who put up a really good score shooting the same Dan T. PP chamber as I was using ) said they were using the "cleaner" solution.

    Here is a link to that thread:

    http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24343

    Chris.

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
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    thanks chris,
    yes, that thread is of great interest.
    yhis mpro7 stuff seems to have some type of bore conditioner.
    maybe that is what stops leading with greasers?
    interestingly, whenblowtubing, the lube in the barrel is not the lube from the bullet.
    combined with water from the breath the lube and the fouling form soap plus glycerine.
    this is what does the lubing.
    the soapiness of mpro7 might work similarly.
    keep safe,
    bruce.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy
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    well I have some good advice.
    do not listen to me!
    yesterday I got leading with pp bullets using my regime while testing some new paper and grease soaked felt wads.
    just when you think you have arrived you are further from the destination than ever.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
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    Bruce every now and then you'll get bad results along the path to new knowledge Are you sure that you are patching far enough up the shank? The first time I tried wiping with pure water I got some grey wash in the bore from lead. I found out that my patches needed to be just a little bit longer

    Chris.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
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    And/or nose slumping if bullets are too soft
    beltfed/arnie

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Just takes one little oopsydoo, torn patch during seating, case stretching from damp chamber, the list goes on, and in the blink of an eye the barrel turns into a night mare of lead deposits.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy
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    well I owe you guys an apology.
    pushed a dry arsenal patch through the barrel and the problem went away!
    I t must have been lint or something from when I pulled the last cleaning patch nearly back to the chamber before pushing it through the muzzle and out.
    the grease wads were an experiment in making a perfect gas seal behind the bullet rather than letting the bullet do the sealing
    it is also possible to blowtube when doing this - working in the direction of shooting dirty.
    impregnating the felt with lube is in part to achieve sameness it wad thickness, and also as a possible bore sweeper for full dirty shooting.
    the felt is 44/40 diameter in a 40 cal barrel.
    shot 2 ranges of 10 to count, both 600 meters.
    1st range dropped 24 points, a shocker, and second dropped 13 points, not good but better.
    one problem I have is needing to wear knoblok shooting frame/lens to see properly.
    this makes looking at flags a lot harder.
    will have to push on with plan a and improve both wind reading and vert.
    still don't take my advice until I can shoot a 50/50 with some v count attatched for your own sake.
    the paper I was trying is golden threads quilting paper.
    it seems quite strong and does not stretch as much as seth cole when wet.
    you need a different template for this paper done wet.
    it is similar in thickness to seth cole 55y when wrapped wet.
    keep safe,
    bruce.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  9. #69
    Boolit Buddy
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    arnie and chris,
    my patches wer if anything a little too long.
    they were not cutting quite to the front, so no leading potential there.
    since going to harder alloys like the odg used, I am slowly shortening them, hesitatingly in order to avoid the issue of leading from the front like bore riding greasers do.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  10. #70
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    rfd, What is your opinion on this VFG system? I have been Contemplating buying in to it, everytime i walk in Buffalo Arms i see the rack of these standing against a wall

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Bruce I've found that so long as the leading edge of the paper engages the rifling, using 16-1 alloy, leading is a non issue.
    You're getting real close to finding the secret to shooting dirty.. but there's 2 things you've glossed right by...
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  12. #72
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    don,
    which 2 things are they?
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54bore View Post
    rfd, What is your opinion on this VFG system? I have been Contemplating buying in to it, everytime i walk in Buffalo Arms i see the rack of these standing against a wall
    lewis, pm sent ....

  14. #74
    Boolit Mold
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    Bruce et.all,
    I have been using bore pigs of my own making for a number of years to wipe between shots shooting a micro groove greaser from my 45-90. When trying paper patch in my sons Browning 45-70 I modified my pigs and routine by taking the Brownells .45 caliber nylon bore brushes and screwing a VFG felt pellet on the front and one on the rear and screwing a 8-32 nylon locking nut on to hold it on. I then soak the pigs in a solution of 30% windex with vineger and 70% water. I shake these out and lay them on a towel on my line box, (haven't had the chance to refine this part) shove one into the chamber, put a 2" dry patch on the mouth of the chamber and push them through with my delrin rod between each shot and its fairly quick to perform.
    I put this method and load together with little time to experiment before a buffalo gong shoot last fall and it shot lights out. We took this load and method to the Q this year and on the #3 target, rectangle 530 yards i watched my 15 year old shoot a 7 out of 8 on a freshly painted target, the five shots that i could see grouped into around 4" to5" of verticle. I shot the same load in a sister rifle and it performed well enough to get me a 37 in the wind earning 2nd in the mens and 8th overall. Far better than I would normally perform.
    I can't say what your results might be but this really seams to be working with our rifles.
    Oh by the way the load was the first I tried.
    .446 BACO Money bullet cast in 16-1, dry wrapped to .451, cci br-2 primer, 83 grains Olde E 2F drop tubed into starline nickel plated cases. This leaves just enough room to seat a .060 poly wad and then compressed .123, seat the bullet and taper crimp with neck size die just enough to keep the bullet from falling out.
    Thanks to Brent for he has suggested that exact recipe,except using Swiss, as a starting place for 45-70 paper patch loads.
    All that to say you might give the windex with vineger and water a try for wiping. Many of us use it to clean the fouling after shooting so it seemed a natural to try it cleaning between shots!

    Todd
    Last edited by craneman; 06-30-2017 at 10:47 PM.

  15. #75
    Boolit Buddy guninhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    ... how are you folks cleaning them?
    I use a fast and easy method not mentioned so far in this thread. I thread the wads on to a length of coat hanger wire that has been bent into the shape of a V, usually using several of these "V"s at a time. Let them soak in warm soapy water for a few minutes then grab a V by the ends with one hand, spray the wads with Spray Nine with the other hand, and go over the wads with a scrub brush (tooth brush too slow). In less than a minute all wads got a soapy lather which I then rinse off under a hot water tap. Because the wads are on stiff wire you can push at the line of them from opposite ends, compressing and decompressing them, so that the water is flushing out the wads. That done, just hang the V on a hook or line to dry. I have found the coat hanger wire just the right size to hold on to the wad but not enough to expand the hole. I once tried a wooden barbecue skewer and it expanded the holes and made it too loose on the BACO jag. I also make my own wads from medium weight felt on a Cornell punch. It takes 5 of them to equal the BACO wad, and they are slightly less in diameter. I also make my own disposable jags from Q-tips, so starting down the bore I have the cut off end of the Q-tip with 5 home made wads with the bore wipe solution, a space, 5 dry homemades, a dry arsenal patch then the fuzzy tip of the Q-tip. The spacing is to ensure bore wipe solution goes no further than the first bunch of 5. I counterbored the tip of my delrin rod so that the fuzzy part of the Q-tip is enclosed (the other fuzzy end of the Q-tip has been cut off to thread the patch,wad bunch,wad bunch on) so that lots of the dry arsenal patch contacts the bore. Works plenty good enough for me, and you can have plenty on hand for a match. Afterwards I pull them off the q-tip directly to the wire holder. I put the center hole in them 5 at a time and they tend to want to stay together so I'm handling 5 at a time most of the time, otherwise it would be too tedious. Getting the holes centered is tricky, I use a drill press and a jig with a hole to hold the 5 wads. Drill bits don't work, I use a sharpened nail.
    Last edited by guninhand; 08-30-2017 at 11:44 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check