Load help or advise on Pedersoli Zouave

[srk]

Hi Everyone
Looking for some help.
Twist as you know is 1-62.
I am using Lyman Minnie.
I started using a wonder wad under bullet as I clean after every shot.
Let me explain.
I shoot a Gibbs target, and a P&H Volunteer rifles.
My sequence after every shot is, powder then wad, then I clean then seat bullet.
I went to this sequence in the Zouave, because I was getting hang fires with the crud
being shoved back into flash hole on inside of barrel.
After I went to the loading sequence that I use in the Gibbs and Volunteer, hang fires stopped.
I have tried 45 grs. right thru to 70grs.
I use 3f goes in all my black powder guns.
I know if I go any higher I run the risk of blowing out the skirt.
Shoots more of a pattern at 100yds rather than any sort of group.
I am thinking of going to a cardboard wad next.
If that doesn't, work, I am going to try round balls.
I also use a sizing die, hand held, and they, Minnie, come out at .577 dia.
The bullets glide down the barrel very nicely.
Any advice and sorry about the novel!
Cheers!

[725]

With that twist, I was wondering if you ever shot any round balls.

[stubshaft]

What is the diameter of the bore? Zoli's run from .574" to .584". Mine made in 1969 measures .580" so I cast .581" and size back to .580". For 100 yd. targets I use a 1/4" thick X 5/8" diameter cork wad ahead of 44.0 grs. of T7 3F. The boolit is a Lee 575 that I lapped out. I fill the base with Moose snot and scrape it level with the base of the boolit and smear a small amount in the grooves. The lube never touches the powder and I believe that it helps the skirt to expand evenly when fired. Minie fit is EVERYTHING! It has to be within .001" to .002" of bore diameter.

[59sharps]

Hi Everyone
Looking for some help.
Twist as you know is 1-62.
I am using Lyman Minnie.
I started using a wonder wad under bullet as I clean after every shot.
Let me explain.
I shoot a Gibbs target, and a P&H Volunteer rifles.
My sequence after every shot is, powder then wad, then I clean then seat bullet.
I went to this sequence in the Zouave, because I was getting hang fires with the crud
being shoved back into flash hole on inside of barrel.
After I went to the loading sequence that I use in the Gibbs and Volunteer, hang fires stopped.
I have tried 45 grs. right thru to 70grs.
I use 3f goes in all my black powder guns.
I know if I go any higher I run the risk of blowing out the skirt.
Shoots more of a pattern at 100yds rather than any sort of group.
I am thinking of going to a cardboard wad next.
If that doesn't, work, I am going to try round balls.
I also use a sizing die, hand held, and they, Minnie, come out at .577 dia.
The bullets glide down the barrel very nicely.
Any advice and sorry about the novel!
Cheers!

42 grn 3ffg, pure lead minnie sizec .001 under bore dia. worked in the one i had.
make sure you don't have a skirt down the bottom. also check the crown is it worn or chipped.
oh yea and get a new nipple.

[srk]

Hi
Gun is brand new
What twist was yours?













QUOTE=59sharps;4022091]42 grn 3ffg, pure lead minnie sizec .001 under bore dia. worked in the one i had.
make sure you don't have a skirt down the bottom. also check the crown is it worn or chipped.
oh yea and get a new nipple.[/QUOTE]

[ian45662]

Don't use a wad. Just powder and minie. You shouldn't have to clean between shots. If the fowling is getting hard you can try putting just a small dab of white lithium grease in the skirt of the minie. This is what I do. You should be able to shoot 15 or more shots without wiping out the bore. You should be looking for a 2-3" group at 100 yards. Give or take. Maybe even a tad smaller. Which Lyman minie are you shooting? The 510 grain minie that they make is very good.


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[bedbugbilly]

Stop swabbing between every shot - that is probably doing more to push crud to the breech than anything else. Stop using a card/wad between minie and powder - the minie is designed to be on top of the powder so the skirt will expand correctly. To keep fouling soft - smear a dab of crisco in the base with your finger - no need to lub the rings on the minie. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds with nothing more than crisco smeared in the base when I was shooting N-SSA and you should be able to get quite a few rounds down the bore before it needs to be swabbed out. I don't remember the Lyman/Ideal mold numbers but I use the smaller semi wadcutter and the "new" style minie. As mentioned above - bullet to bore fit is the key and barrel bores on Zouaves can be all over the place. My Zouave (maker unknown as it is not marked) that I bought back in the early '60s had a larger bore size - i.e. in the .580s. I replaced the barrel on it last year with one I took off of a Zoli - a perfect fit and drop in - and the bore on that barrel is around .578 - my minies drop form the mold at around .576 so they work very well.

I'm not familiar with the Pedersoli Zouaves but again, bullet to bore fit is everything - then shoot it as it was intended - with a minie ball and powder and forget the wads cards, etc. You should have no problems in getting fairly tight groups at 100 yards if you do your job. I have always used a "service load" in my .58 caliber rifled muskets of 60 grains of 2F. With the smaller semi wadcutter - I cut that back to around 40 - 45 grains for shooting/plinking at 25 - 50 yards.

I don't remember the twist rate on my barrel but it is the standard three groove rifling. You might try RB and see how they shoot if you can get the right ball/patch fit for your bore but remember it is a shallower military style rifling and not deeper rifling as found on traditional RB barrels.

Good luck and keep us posted on how it's going for you with your new Zouave.

[ian45662]

If your barrel is 1:62 that is good for minies. My 58 cal guns are 1:60 and shoot minies great


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[59sharps]

[QUOTE=srk;4023726]Hi
Gun is brand new
What twist was yours?

I have no idea what it was. was never interested in that. can't tell you rate of twist on any of mine.

[srk]

Hi Everyone
I was shooting Minnie on top of powder at first.
But went to afore mentioned routine to stop the hang fires.
I suppose if I stopped cleaning after each shot, and only clean after
every 10 or so, it should prevent the hang fires.
Which is what dad said.
Yep, going back to putting lube in the base, I make my own as I pan lube
my other cast bullets, but for smokeless.
Also would going to 2f be better?
I use 3f in all my others as listed above.
My dad also recommended using bore butter on the bullet as well as filling
the base.
I use Lyman's 565 gr. Bullet and size to .577 as listed above.
They slide/glide nicely down the barrel.
On the topic if RB, what do you all prefer, pre-lube patch, like wonder-wad patches or
spit lube dry patches?
Keep the advice coming.
And thanks to all, you have been very helpful.
Sean

[ian45662]

If that's the mould I'm thinking of the skirt is thick and the hollow base cavity isnt very deep. I can only recommend what has works for me which is the Lyman 510 minie or a minie from a rapine mould or moose mould. I also like those little 315 semi wadcutters from rapine. I would use a black powder lube and put something like crisco or white lithium in the base but with the Lyman 510 grain minie it carries enough lube to where you may not need to put any extra stuff in the base. The semi wadcutters I shoot done carry much lube so I have to add a little something in the base. I have never used bore butter nor have I have ever seen anyone in a match use bore butter.


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[Buckshot]

...............Getting a MLer shooting is like other firearms in that trying historic loads, and then modifying things like powders, loads, lubes, and different boolits. It's all fun.

I have a couple 58 cals. One is a Zoli Zouave which I have never personally ever shot yet. Then an old 'No Name' Zouave repro I've had since dirt was new. I eventually cut off the bbl to carbine length, and it's been a great shooter for the past 30 some years. LAstly I bought a P-H P-58 2 band Naval Pattern Enfield, below:



It too has it's own idiosyncrasies. For one thing it wants the lube (for Minie' bullets) in the base only. If you put it in the grooves it's not as accurate. Another is that it will not shoot using the ever popular Crisco and like a woman, it seems to prefer whatever costs more! It also likes the real deal (Black Powder) vs Pyrodex.



LEFT: Five shots @ 50 yards, lube test. Other testing proved Bore Butter over Crisco. Using Bore Butter I can shoot just about all day long. In my rifle after about 8 rounds with Crisco you practically have to drive the ramrod down with a mallet. The slug is an old Challenger mould for a 540gr Minie'. RIGHT: It took a 90 gr volume equivalent for Pyrodex to equal the velocity of the Swiss 2FG velocity, but didn't match the accuracy.



LEFT: Explanation on the photo. RIGHT: An NEI 500 gr target slug. The only one the rifle will shoot with lube in the groove. Good thing too, as that's the only place to PUT any lube. Five shots at 50 yards.

In none of the above loads was any card or felt wads used between the boolit and the powder charge. Slug sat directly on the charge. Another thing to try that may or may not increase accuracy. That is to use a snug damp patch on the ramrod when seating the slug. The patch needs to come out with the ramrod. Some of the residue comes out with the patch and true, some is pushed down with the slug.



This group was fired offhand at 50 yards (40.0grs of Elephant 3Fg, Lee Target Minie) using a damp patch on the ramrod to seat the slug.

....................Buckshot

[bigted]

you didnt say that i remember ... pure lead or a mix.

also my zoovy is an old "CVA" rifle with the slow twist shallow grooves but boy is it way big ... .585 inch. i ordered some .575, .580, and some .585 inch bullets from TOW to try in mine to see what it wanted to devour and the .585 inch boolits took the prize. now i also had some .570 round balls from Hornaday and these patched with a heavy .025 inch hickory shirt lubed with either Bore Butter or my vasoline/bee wax mix seems to work well in my riflr and i can hand seat the balls and cut off the patching then run em home atop the powder with the rod ... easy peasy. very fun ball shooter but i have also patched up some of the .575's with 2 wraps of onion skin which seems like it wants to go down the bore well. havnt tryed them yet tho but i plan to.

these old civil war rifle guns are just a hoot to mess with and i think they should cut the legs from under any game runnin here in north America.

[oldracer]

I read through all this and now wonder if you read the Pedersoli user guide that came with the gun? If you don't have one they will either send you one or email an electronic copy. Generally they have bullet and powder recommendations on what to shoot and so on. Do their stuff work, well a few years ago I bought a used Pedersoli Gibbs, the 1000 yard gun and was fiddling with powder loads, wad types and bullet types. I could not get anything to work so I finally called Pedersoli USA and got one of their owners manuals. Hummmm, no wad, no powder compacting, ETC, ETC so I tried their recommendations with their bullet. Dammmmm it worked and the first time at 100 yards, the 5 shots were all nearly in one hole! I did try some paper patched loads and after a year of messing with it I followed Roger Johnson's recommendations and the same result!

[srk]

I do use pure lead.
I haven't got to the range yet to try any suggestions.
Lower head in shame. Lol

[srk]

OK!
Hi Everyone.
Finally an update.
I started from scratch again.
I started with 70grs of 3f went up to 75 then down to around 63grs, 3f
I was able to get it to group around 3.5 to 4 inches at 100yds.
I fired a fowler and kept shooting.
Around the 7 or 8th shot group started to turn into a pattern. lol
So i cleaned barrel and started again.
Point of impact changed, and i couldn't get it to group. Again!
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks

[carbine]

I shoot muskets in the N-SSA. Nobody uses that much powder in a rife musket. Folk use 35-55 grains for the most part. Try a thinner skirted minie. Moose Moulds. Tennessee makes a dual cavity. Experiment with lube as well. You should be able to fire 15 rounds without difficulty, to the same point of aim.

[ian45662]

Try a think skirted minie. Lyman 575213 new style is a great bullet.


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[srk]

Hi
Thanks everyone!
unfortunately its going to be awhile until i get back shooting.
tuesday night at work i accidentally severed the top part of my thumb.
wish everyone well.
Sean

[LIMPINGJ]

Ouch, hope you recover soon.