Marlin 1894 .44 Mag...sideways bullets...

[longbow]

I had a few significant issues with mine:

- barrel slugs at 0.4315" groove but as already pointed out, that is SAAMI spec
- I started out with the famous 429421 so what could be bad there? Well, not only is the nose too long to feed well unless the boolit is seated deep but it cast at 0.429" so well undersize in my 0.4315" groove barrel. Shoulda slugged the bore before buying the mould. I was getting mediocre to poor accuracy and moderate leading. No keyholing though.
- My barrel was one that suffered from roll stamping and dovetail cutting causing constrictions in the bore. I read about that on the Marlin owners forum so checked my gun and sure enough, tight spots. So I lapped them out.

I now use boolits of 0.433"/0.434" with good accuracy and no leading.

I don't think there is anything wrong with microgroove barrels or cast boolits in microgroove barrels but make sure you slug the bore and use a boolit of at least 0.001" larger than groove diameter.

Longbow

[GooseGestapo]

I had a '70's vintage Marlin '94 in .44mag. With Lyman 429421 at .429" did EXACTLY the same thing.
IMO, all lead bullets for .44mag should be .431" minimum. My S&W 69 likes .431". My .1895 Marlin .45/70 wants .460" (don't have any larger sizers).

[bikerbeans]

Marlin overbored my 44-40 barrel, I need at least a .430" diameter to shoot cast. Groove on this barrel measures 0.4295" on this barrel. I can't use a larger bullet because of a tight neck.

BB

BB

[Drm50]

I have a 1970, 1894-44mg. I got it in a trade a few years back. The only reason for this rifle is
deer hunting in Ohio. I have several 44mg revolvers, my deer load for them is Hornady 240 JHP
21.5g of H-2400. I put a K3 on the 1894 and sighted in at 60yds. The gun would shoot 3/4" 5
shot groups consistently. I then shot a Gas checked SWC-hp at slightly less velocity. Sized to .430
Grouped just as well, with vert little point of impact difference at 60yds. I have never slugged the
barrel. I have no tight and loose spots. I think this difference in bore is caused by wear on tooling
during production. Their QC had to have a minimum and maximum diameter rejection spec.

[BAGTIC]

I suspect more problems with lead bullets are caused by them being too small than too large. Not much need to size a lead bullet unless it is too big to chamber. The gun itself is the best sizing die.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My Marlin 1894 CB with a 24" bbl. put it's first 25 or so rounds of reloads thru the target sideways at 50 ft! I pulled bullets and they were .428. This gun has a .431 groove dia. which is nominal SAAMI spec for .44 Mag Rifles.

I run boolits at .432 and everything is fine. Go to load is 429244 at .432 with 22.0 gr of H110.

Your problem is boolit size, nothing else. These guns are not hard to get to shoot right.

Randy

[Iowa Fox]

My Marlin 1894 CB with a 24" bbl. put it's first 25 or so rounds of reloads thru the target sideways at 50 ft! I pulled bullets and they were .428. This gun has a .431 groove dia. which is nominal SAAMI spec for .44 Mag Rifles.

I run boolits at .432 and everything is fine. Go to load is 429244 at .432 with 22.0 gr of H110.

Your problem is boolit size, nothing else. These guns are not hard to get to shoot right.

Randy

Same here.

I quit slugging bores a long time ago. I use molds that cast fat, I size fat with good lube, and if it will chamber the barrel can do the additional sizing it needs. Sounds hoaky I know but it works for me and NO leading with good accuracy.

[Nobade]

Same here.

I quit slugging bores a long time ago. I use molds that cast fat, I size fat with good lube, and if it will chamber the barrel can do the additional sizing it needs. Sounds hoaky I know but it works for me and NO leading with good accuracy.

This is why I keep repeating...if the bullet is just barely a slip fit in a fired case, it is the right size. It really does make things easy.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[JohnH]

I have a Rossi and an NEF in 44 Mag. boolits of 430 and 432 diameter pattern more than group. An NOE copy of Keiths 250 grain semi wadcutter at 434 resolved that issue. I think the difference in bore/groove diameter between handgun and rifle barrels allowed by SAMMI has to do with the cylinder gap of revolvers. Still, maximum pressures should occur before the bullet fully exits the cylinder so no "pressure relief" should be needed. Tis a mystrey to me why SAMMI even created/allows this nonsense. Life would be much easier without it.

[ironhead7544]

My 1894 Cowboy with 24" barrel in 44 Magnum requires a .433 bullet. Very accurate with no leading.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a Rossi and an NEF in 44 Mag. boolits of 430 and 432 diameter pattern more than group. An NOE copy of Keiths 250 grain semi wadcutter at 434 resolved that issue. I think the difference in bore/groove diameter between handgun and rifle barrels allowed by SAMMI has to do with the cylinder gap of revolvers. Still, maximum pressures should occur before the bullet fully exits the cylinder so no "pressure relief" should be needed. Tis a mystrey to me why SAMMI even created/allows this nonsense. Life would be much easier without it.

But that reason is exactly why they did it. opening up the grooves .002 made a significant difference but more importantly it put a little more safety cushion in place that wasn't there before.

When I called Marlin inquiring why my barrel was .431 instead of .429 the guy I talked to clued me in and after I went to the SAAMI site and looked it up for myself to confirm that he wasn't just pulling my leg to get me to go away, I realized why it was done.

Now if we could just get them to make 1:20 twist barrel for the .44's and .45's. The original 1:38 twist was derived from that dreaded Greenhill Formula and carried over from the .44-40 to the .44 Mag. It works OK for short fat boolits like you'd shoot in a .44-40 but as the boolits get longer with the .44 Mags ability to push bigger boolits it all falls apart and all you can do to get them to stabilize is make them go faster and faster. That obviously has limits.

Randy

[Surfdog]

Surfdog Update:

I appreciate all the good feedback, and I'm happy to verify that all boolits I've loaded that are .432 shoot great, and at all speeds.

For reference, here are the bullets and loads that performed the best at this point in time. I was just testing gross accuracy and have yet to fine tune the loads much.

6.5gr W231 over a MP 433640 HP (210 Hollow Point) cast with 16-1 shoots an honest 3/4" group at 25 yards with a Skinner peep.

8.0gr of W231 over an LBT .432 WFNGC (260 Big Meplat) cast with 16-1 shoots an honest 1" group at 25 yards with a Skinner peep with no bruising

I'm going to be curious to chronograph these loads, because I was looking to put together some light pistol loads that shoot well in the rifle. I believe both the above loads will be good deer loads within 50 yards, which is all the farther I'd expect to shoot these limited recoil loads.

I'd also like to thank Beagle for helping me choose to buy the MP 433640 HP Mold. It shoots great in the Marlin, and my S&W 329PD....unfortunately I think my Ruger SBH just does not like light bullets...

Surfdog

[crackshotsdad]

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that I have an 'odd ball' Marlin 1894. It will do a cloverleaf at 50 yards with Lee's 310 grain gc sized to .430. In an effort to extend the practical range of the rifle, I've been experimenting with some lighter cast boolit designs. I have a 200 gr rnfp gc from Accurate Molds that I sized to .430 loaded over 26.4 gr of w296. Using a Lead Sled and a Nikon scope, I printed 2 consecutive 2 1/2" 5 shot groups at 200 yards, much to the disbelief of my Son, my long-range-shooting buddy, and the range officer that all witnessed it. I've never slugged the bore but I strongly suspect it is on the tight end of SAMMI's specs. Thoughts?.............

[Nobade]

Don't sell it. You have a good one.

[kidmma]

Remember if you use the Lee factory crimp die it may size that bullet down below the 430 diameter inside the case....