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Thread: Bullets for Glock 21 in 45 ACP

  1. #21
    Boolit Master yondering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
    poacher job and those owning .45 ACP Glocks,

    Might want to have a good gander down your OE barrels, I've seen it reported many times that the .45 ACP barrel are standard rifling, not the so called "polygonal" rifling.
    No, whoever told you that doesn't know what they're talking about. The Glock .45 barrels are still polygonal rifling; the difference is they use 8 lands instead of 6 like the smaller bores. None of them use conventional rifling. They are not true polygonal barrels, but round with flats, but that's true of all Glock barrels.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I have never looked into the newer generation Glock chambers other than my Glock 41. I prefer the rifling in the Glock OE barrel, but am a stickler about case support now.

    My frame split into two pieces, for and aft, with with some other pieces blowing out laterally. The trigger shattered and was a mass of shards. The magazine ejected out the bottom and disassembled itself in the process.

    I fell to my knees in pain from the trauma to my hands. Once the pain subsided to a manageable degree I determined that all my fingers were still there. They were powder burned making it hard to tell at first. My shooting glasses saved my eyes, but there was blood dripping out of my face from what I assumed was pieces of brass. Once I realized I did not need immediate medical attention I decided to look for parts. I found everything with some careful searching. The magazine was ok except for the small locking plate that locks the magazine bottom in place. The slide and barrel appeared fine once I cleaned them up. The piece of WWC brass was pierced perfectly to match the unsupported part of the chamber. When I pulled my target my first and fatal [to my pistol] 2nd shot were only 1.5'' apart at 25 yards.

    I always believed others who had their Glocks blow were hot-rodding them. I thought myself safe because the 45 ACP operated at much less pressure that the 40's and 9's. Boy was I wrong. This piece of brass was on it's 3rd firing. I inspected it before before loading, but apparently not well enough. If the brass had been rotated as little as 90 degrees I may not have experienced the catastrophic failure that I did.

    I am not afraid of cast boolits at all. And I loved the Glock rifling myself and was always pleased with the accuracy of my 21. I know the Glock 41 OE barrel I have is not nearly as supported in the chamber as the KKM barrel I purchased to use in it.

    It may not look like much to most people, but trust me if you ever have a Glock K-boom in your hands you will have your thinking process readjusted immediately.

    I am not knocking Glocks at all. They are fine pistols in my opinion and I had owned mine for 19 years when mine blew. Just follow the instructions about no reloads in their OE barrels.....unless you just like to gamble. I am just tying to get Glock users to understand what is at stake when things go bad. And I was not hot-rodding mine.

    I pulled all my other boolits and checked powder charges. Nothing wrong. Not proof that the one that blew wasn't over charged, but I am convinced I just finally got a weakened case rotated just right in the chamber to cause a major problem.

    Trust me reading about it here is as close as you ever want to be to an experience on the level of my mishap. I just always figured Glock was covering all bases with their warning not to use reloads. And as I said before my barrel and slide survived in fine shape. When a grip spits in two + pieces in your hand from a catastrophic pressure release it rearranges your thinking.

    All that being said I drove to our range one day and found a friend who just had the same experience by some years prior to mine. Blood on his face. Sort of a bewildered look in his eyes. His pistol was a Kimber. His frame did not split, but I have no idea to the damage to his pistol other than the feed lips on his magazine being bent and the spring on his ejected out the top of the magazine instead of the bottom as on mine. He assumed he had double charged on a Dillon 550. I have wondered if it was just another piece of brass with a weak spot lined up with an unsupported chamber.

    Mike
    Last edited by Spector; 04-22-2017 at 10:10 AM.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Where is there documented proof, not assumed or passed on information, that shows that Glock chambers, other than the Glock 40's that aren't fully supported
    I know they cut chambers on the large side like the 10MM that are on the large side of dimensions like Colt cuts their 45 Colt chambers but where is it documented information from a very reliable source. Not he said, she said, third hand, fourth hand or any other hand info.
    I have a Glock 30 and a RIA 1911 and I can't see that the Glock has any less support at the feed ramp.
    BTW I am not saying they are as supported but am wondering that as low as the pressure is for the 45Auto is does it make any difference?
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 04-22-2017 at 06:21 PM.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    And I used to think the same way. Lower pressure 45 ACP. No problems. And for over 13,000 rounds that appeared to be correct thinking. And then........it wasn't. Maybe I can post a picture with help from my grandson.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Why I think this is odd I know a guy that used to shoot IDPA and shot a nine and probably shot over 50,000 rounds and never had a problem except the lug on the bottom of the barrel broke. He sent it to Glock to be checked out to see it it hurt the gun and they put in a new barrel and sent it back free of charge. He reloaded a lot.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0308.jpg 
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ID:	193856. Glock 41 OE bbl vs KKM bbl for Glock 41. There's a pic. Make of it what you will. My intention in posting was trying to save some from the pain l experienced. If you have doubts then bang away with reloads in Glock OE bbl's. 50,000 rounds with no problems. You got pictures? I just furnished mine. If you want to heed my advice, and Glock's instructions then please do. If not then do as you choose. I've made my effort. I no longer have a picture of the destroyed Glock 21 or l would post that as well.
    Last edited by Spector; 04-22-2017 at 09:40 PM.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spector View Post
    I have never looked into the newer generation Glock chambers other than my Glock 41. I prefer the rifling in the Glock OE barrel, but am a stickler about case support now. My frame split into two pieces, for and aft, with with some other pieces blowing out laterally. The trigger shattered and was a mass of shards. The magazine ejected out the bottom and disassembled itself in the process.

    I pulled all my other boolits and checked powder charges. Nothing wrong. Not proof that the one that blew wasn't over charged, but I am convinced I just finally got a weakened case rotated just right in the chamber to cause a major problem.
    Mike
    Mike, I question case failure as the cause of this. The amount of damage done here is beyond anything I have heard of in .40 cal. Glocks that run at twice the pressure a .45 runs at. I could easily believe it in a .40 cal. Glock, but not for a .45.

    Case failures on early G22's were caused by a combination of the Feed Ramp intersecting the chamber farther up the case, and some Federal Cases (marked FC and FC-10) where the web of the case head didn't extend far enough up the case to reinforce that area of the case that was lined up with the feed ramp. Newer brass has corrected this issue, as well as Gen 3 guns having less feed ramp intrusion up the side of the chamber.

    This sounds more like a heavy charge maybe caused by a powder bridge in the drop tube. causing a light charge followed by a heavy charge on the next one. I can only see a double charge if your existing powder and charge weight doesn't fill the case enough to prevent this.

    Earlier Glock .40 cal. barrels also had thinner chamber walls which when pushed tended to split the locking block horizontally. This was also fixed in later guns.

    All semi auto pistols have a portion of the chamber that is unsupported, and we should clear up this BS Unsupported Chamber Moniker as something that is peculiar Glock's.

    All Semi autos have a place where the Feed Ramp intersects the chamber. That is one place they are all unsupported. Also the Extractor Cut is another.

    When reloading .40 S&W ammo, removing the small bulge from the side of the case is almost mandatory for safety. The Kabooms almost always come from the bad Federal Brass, and the left over bulge being timed to the feed ramp on a subsequent shot. Obviously this is where the failures occur.

    However the .45 ACP doesn't have this problem because it should only be running at 17-19,000 psi if reloaded correctly with lead or even copper plated boolits. I have never seen a Glock bulge on any piece of my .45 ACP brass. I might add that every round I have loaded for my guns has been from range brass I picked up at my range.

    In fact I had to buy a .45 simply because I had accumulated so much brass I had to buy a gun to shoot it in.

    I personally am not a big fan of Aftermarket Glock parts in general. I have a short list of sights, and an extended mag and slide release. I have tried quite a few other piece parts and all have failed or created problems. My Storm Lake G35 barrel malfunctions one time in every mag so it lives in the bottom of my G35 range bag.

    Good to hear that you weren't badly hurt, and I hope none of us ever has to experience what you did.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I've never seen a Glock Bulge on my 45 Auto cases either and I look at my cases.
    Now the 10MM is another story. It isn't the Glock bulge it is just where the chambers are cut to max dimensions like the Colt SAA are. The Colt clones like Uberti are cut large. My Kimber 10MM chambers are cut on the smaller side. Now I wouldn't reload the Glock 10MM cases as many times as I would the Kimbers. Even though it is a 500 dollar piece mill gun that sells for around eleven hundred dollars as I was told by one character on the board.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    You may be correct about the over pressure load, but I weighed it on a Lyman beam scale as l did the other 49 loads in the box. I was using a new, to me, powder. I don't remember which one for sure now, but the weight checked out as ok and not a max load in my Hogden #26 manual and/or a Speer manual I use. I bought 500 Starline 45 Super cases awhile back for a little added protection in my XDS carry pistol.

    I have often gotten bulged cases in my old Gen 1 Glock 21. And I have done crazy things with it. 255 grain RF's at 980 fps using HS7. And 61 gain XTP jackets filled with 5 minute epoxy at 1925 fps. I used range pickup military WCC brass exclusively except for some of the crazy hot loads I used early on. And counting extractor marks I loaded a case 13 times...many between 9 to 11 times. Not smart I know. So I no longer do it. The case that ruptured was only fired twice before.

    I realized long ago there are no magic bullets, boolits or loads that will make up for poor pistol craft and the resultant inaccuracy. I try to achieve 825 to 850 fps with 230 grain bullets and boolits and just call it good enough.

    The first day I bought my Glock 21 I thinned the grip down so the frame that blew apart may or may not have held with the catastrophic case failure if left completely stock. Later I further modified it turning it into a 21/30 by shortening the grip. Basically a long slide Glock 30. It had a 3.5 lb. connector in it and wore Meprolight adjustable nite sights for all except about a month of the 19 years I owned it. Other than that it was stock.

    I sort of find it amusing that it didn't blow when it had every right to back in my crazier more reckless days.

    I no longer have the case or I would post a pic. The case rupture exactly matched the unsupported portion at the feed ramp. When I sold the slide, bbl and Mags I left the case with the parts.

    As I said you may well be right about the over pressure occurring in my Glock even though all powder charges were weighed. Still I suspect that more support would have prevented the case failure. Even so I hope the 45 Super brass, even with it's reduced case capacity, will provide a modicum of added insurance against another event like that in my life if I use common sense.

    And you are right about other pistols having the same situation exist. It is not limited to just Glocks. So far my KKM bbl has been totally reliable about chambering rounds. Just wish it had Glock rifling. I was, and still am, a complete believer in Polymer technology.

    Mike

  10. #30
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Never noticed the glock bulge in any of my cases. I've probably got somewhere around 10-15000 rounds of reloads through my glock 21.
    As far as loads I have shot the lee rnfp with good results, h and g 68 and copies with excellent results, lee 230 grn round ball with excellent results, bd 45 with excellent results. As far as powder I have used clays, red dot and unique.
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    One other thought on loading for the glock 21, the chambers are a little loose compared to other .45s I own. So if your loading for more than one gun what fits in the glock won't fit in everything.
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    The blown case I found looked like this, but it was one of the early FC marked cases and you can see exactly how it came apart. Right in the feed ramp area and where the case was weakest.

    Since then .40 S&W cases have been strengthened by extending the web of the case further forward to cope with this very problem.

    After I found this case at the range in 2002 I went back and looked at all my brass and found 10 more. I usually only load Winchester cases as they are the most common. I do load others but never more than once as I shoot them in places that I can't pick up brass.

    I also shoot .40 S&Ws in my Kel Tec S2K and it has a completely supported chamber and no worries at all.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check