Filler with 2400???

[abunaitoo]

I working a load for a 2A Enfield. 308.
Shoots well at 50yds with 16.0 of 2400.
At 100yds I think it should group better than it is doing.
I know adding a filler is not needed, but has anyone tried it????

[robg]

I don't us any filler in my 308 with 2400 ,18 grains work best for me with 160 and 180 gr boolits std large rifle primers .very accurate and comfortable to shoot all afternoon .

[curator]

2400 does not seem to be particularly position sensitive or difficult to ignite, so fillers are not usually needed. Where a filler like plastic shot buffer (PSB) or Cream of Wheat (COW) helps with cast boolit accuracy is when the bore has loose spots, or the boolit cannot seal off powder gas in the bore. Neither of these work well in bottle-necked cases like the .308 and may cause pressure spikes.

[runfiverun]

2400 is position sensitive.
try bumping your load another grain, and then orienting the powder to the back of the case when your chambering the round.

16grs and a filler of Dacron will work, it's just more time consuming to make.

[Streetwalker]

2400 is one of my very favorite powders for cast bullets in the 6.5 to 8mm cal. military cartridges. 16 grains is my standard charge but I have found consistently better grouping if I use a magnum primer instead of the usual standard force primer.

[abunaitoo]

Never thought of using Magnum primers.
I may give it a try.

I'm probably not using the correct term when I wrote filler.
I use Dacron as a filler to keep the powder in the back of the case.
Only use COW to fire form cases. Never tried the plastic buffer.
I've noticed, that in most cases, it will group better at longer ranges.

I've worked the load of 2400 from 15.0 to 17.0.
Got the best accuracy with 16.0 at 50yds and 100yds.

[abunaitoo]

Results from Sunday.
Large rifle magnum primers shot great at 50yds. Not so much at 100yds. 309 boolets so that may be why.
311 boolets, regular primers, no filler. Shot about the same as 309 boolets at 50yds and 100yds.
309 with Dacron filler. Didn't shoot as good as any of the others.
All with 16.0 of 2400.
Best load was the 309 boolet, regular primer, no filler.
Any suggestions on what other powders I might try????
Might a heavier boolet help???
I've tried a lyman 314299 sized to 311.
Didn't shoot as good as the Lee 309/160.

[mac1911]

Have you tried H 4895?
I have had good luck with it in my 91/30 and the 314299

[Sasquatch-1]

I have never tried in rifle cases or with 2400, but I have poly filled 44 cases with Unique. To me (and this may all be in my head) 7 grns. of Unique with poly fill feels like 8 to 8.5 grns of powder. Also things like Cream of Wheat burn and poly fill melts. Pay attention to your pressures.

[Papacasts]

Has anyone used strands from a cotton ball? I've loaded up some with this and they shot well.

[Baja_Traveler]

I go the the fabric shop and pick up a yard of 1/2" Dacron batting, cut it into 1/2" strips, then cut those into 1/2" squares. I use these to top my 2400 in my Mosin. I find 2400 to be very accurate in my Mosin out to 500 meters.

[CHeatermk3]

I shoot I-4895 behind an RCBS 20-180-SP in my 308 with outstanding accuracy--it's a match winner. No filer/Dacron needed.

[John Boy]

Has anyone used strands from a cotton ball?

I use strands of cotton for all my position sensitive powders, plus a plug of it for my breech seated reloads in all my reload calibers. Cotton burns and is consumed at 452F

[AggiePharmD]

2400 is one of my very favorite powders for cast bullets in the 6.5 to 8mm cal. military cartridges. 16 grains is my standard charge but I have found consistently better grouping if I use a magnum primer instead of the usual standard force primer.

Does the magnum primer just burn hotter therefore igniting the powder more consistently?

[Larry Gibson]

Does the magnum primer just burn hotter therefore igniting the powder more consistently?

Yes, at least that's the idea.

I've found 2400 doesn't need a filler under a 311299 in the .308W if loaded to top end psi for that powder. The problem there becomes for the OP his Enfield has a 10" twist and at that psi level the velocity is exceeding the RPM Threshold. Best to use the Dacron filler with 2400 under that bullet in his .308W/7.62 Enfield keeping velocities down in the 1750 - 1900 fps range. Better yet is to use 4895 (as also suggested) with a Dacron filler under the 311299 again keeping the velocity under 1950 fps.

Cotton will work but I found out the hard way it does burn and is not always "consumed" before it hits the ground. I ruined a very good pair of sneakers stomping out a couple fires I started in front of the firing line in the summer before I figured that out. No such problem with Dacron.

Larry Gibson

[CHeatermk3]

It would help to understand what the problem may be if you could tell us, or better yet post pix of your 50 vs 100 yds groups. It's been my experience that the only thing you really find out at 50 is what will not work--i.e. if it don't shoot at 50 it ain't gonna shoot prolly at all. A 1 inch load at 50 may be a 1.5 inch load at 100, or a 5", for more reasons than just powder/boolit/primer/case.

Just how big are your groups 50/100?

[jcren]

May sound crazy, but I know a lgs owner/tinkerer that was working on a 300 blackout in a h&r frame and was getting extreme velocity deviations with 2400 under a Lee 180rf. He got the idea to try Cci small pistol primers and the spread dropped to around 40 fps and groups shrank by more than half. As long as your firing pin will reach, would be worth a try.

[mac1911]

I was hoping to find my data/notes when clearing out the cellar.
I played with 2400 and 4895 in 30-06,54r, 303 but not 308.
Have you slugged the bore of your Enfield? Might be bigger than you would like to believe.
As for 2400/H4895 I did some crony testing and found no significant change in velocity "tipping" the barrel up to get the powder reward in the case more.
I also use Darcon which unless I was having a bad day produced groups beyond my average?
Right now in my 1903a3 My best accuracy comes from a ranch dog flat nose tumble lube design with 16grains of 2400.

So does this rifle do better with other ammo.

[mac1911]

2400 does not seem to be particularly position sensitive or difficult to ignite, so fillers are not usually needed. Where a filler like plastic shot buffer (PSB) or Cream of Wheat (COW) helps with cast boolit accuracy is when the bore has loose spots, or the boolit cannot seal off powder gas in the bore. Neither of these work well in bottle-necked cases like the .308 and may cause pressure spikes.

I'm still not seeing how a filler will keep the gases from by passing any loose spots in a bore? If filler actually controlled or prevented gases from passing would we not just use it all the time and even be able to replace gas checks with a puff of filler?
The more I read about filler the more I feel like it is a hold on from the black powder days.?

[303Guy]

Has anyone used strands from a cotton ball? I've loaded up some with this and they shot well.

The thing about cotton wool is that it burns and can set the countryside on fire. It does not always burn but some loads will ignite it. I had to try hard to find a load that did ignite it but once ignited it smolders and grows.

I have had good success with fillers in a particular rifle. The filler I used was wheat bran. I changed to wheat germ because it is oily, lighter and flows better through a bottleneck case. Depending on the shape of the shoulder fillers like wheat bran of grits (never tried COW) may flow just fine but I was getting boolit base cupping from both which I considered not such a good thing for accuracy. My alloy was rather soft so perhaps a harder alloy would alleviate the problem. Anyway, the main advantage of wheat bran as a filler is its fibrous nature which would form a wad under the boolit which would seal the bore. It also cleans the bore.