How versatile is wheel weight alloy

[Strtspdlx]

I keep seeing controversial posts about alloys verse velocity along with variables like size, weight, hollow point. I'm looking to push a 160gn .402 diameter cast to about 1400fps give or take. It will be hollow point and I'd like decent weight retention. I'm not overly concerned with expansion but I am concerned with weight retention (I don't want it to fragment).
I'm also looking to run a 320ish grain .458 to between 1600-1800fps and same rules apply as above.
Can I use wheel weight alloy in both scenarios? May it be too hard for one or the other. Or should I just load some up and see how they do? I know plenty before me have done this or asked this question but I'd like to see if it's still a relevant concern with today's technology, alloys, standards.

[OS OK]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm From Ingot to Target:
	A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners ©
	A joint effort by Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate

[ShooterAZ]

It is very versatile. I sometimes use it straight for 45ACP loads, sometimes I add a little tin to it. Also can be useful for rifle hunting loads mixed with roofing lead or pure if you have any. I also add some tin to this mix as well. Usually 1-2% or so.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Strtspdix,

First, Hollow point bullets -------------- Expansion in cast bullets is and will always be dependent on alloy and range/velocity. Too hard and too close or too much velocity and the bullet may fragment, while at a great range or less velocity it will simply punch through the target.

Too soft an alloy, too close or too much velocity and it will uncontrollably expand.

MUCH better is to choose a bullet with as large a meplat as possible and forget the un-predictable and un-controllable expansion.

Then clip on WW are a great place to start. Millions upon millions of good bullet have been cast/shot using just plain WW.

They will test at about 11 - 12.5 Brinell hardness as is, or water quenched, 23 - 24.

For my 45/70, as per my mold makers recommendation for the 465gr Wide Flat Nose bullet, I cast and again at his recommendation, with a 50/50 WW/Lead alloy water quenching as the bullets fall from the mold for a hardness of again about 23 - 24 as tested on my Cabin Tree tester.

The difference should be a bit more malleability with the higher percentage of lead.

Adding additional tin ------------- Well for the most part it is a waste of good money, UNLESS doing so does create a more usable alloy in some way.

Lyman lists clip on WW as having a .5% tin level and seldom is there a need to add more tin for casting.

My 465gr WFN 45/70 bullets at a 50/50 alloy have a much lower percentage of tin and still cast great.

So, WW are a good place to start and may be all you need, but with the addition of other metals such as lead, it may well give you the results you desire.

NICE BULLETS OS OK!

Attached images shows a before/after image of the 465gr that took my first 45/70 elk (two taken since then all with the 465gr at 1650fps) and another 50/50 (45/70) with WW bullets. The "after" bullet went from 465gr to 327.9gr when on a front quartering shot the bullet took out the big/heavy upper front leg bone, after which it went about another 30" before stopping under the hide just ahead of the off side rear ham. Last image is of my 2016 45/70 elk taken at 161yds.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[OS OK]

They are not mine...they pasted in when I copied the title and link.
They look hand picked and rag polished after they were sized.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks! That is right honest of you to say that. As shinny as they are, I suspect there is a fair percentage of tin in the alloy.

I like shinny, but not at the additional cost for little to nothing gained other then shine.

Thanks again!

CDOC

[fredj338]

The issue with clip ww is the antimony. Depending on the HP design, it tends to fragment the nose. Pure lead & tin is more malleable, but again, fragmentation will depend a lot on HP design.

[Soundguy]

I'm running 400-500grn .458 in 45-70 and 458 winmags. The latter I use gas checks on

I'm using a very wide meplat.

I'm getting 100% weight retention, no fragmenting and deformation at nose to about 2xdiameter as dug from a dirt backdrop, using hand brewed Lyman #2 at about 15-16 bhn.

[runfiverun]

I'd skip the hollow point too.
if you want penetration you don't need a bunch of frontal diameter mucking things up.
sheared petals are just gonna make the mass lower [ read: inhibits penetration]

you either go for some penetration with good frontal mass and weight retention.
or you go for penetration, straight line penetration, and enough frontal diameter to disrupt tissue on the way through. [and out the other side as much as possible]

I, like CDOC, prefer the 'you go for option'.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

have you considered using lyman#2? it is 5%sb,5%sn, also you could use ww's plus a little tin and add about 50% by weight purer lead, that will help keep it from fracturing, also, look into a cup point instead of the traditional hollow point

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh sorry soundguy, I missed where you already mentioned lyman#2

[lightman]

I consider wheelweight alloy to be very versatile. Its about all that I use in my pistols and up to 1700-2000 fps in my rifles. I have lots of different alloy but ww are my go to.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, WW!!!!!!

I have over the years added tin, linotype, 50/50 solder and it always ends up in the mixed metal/alloy pile while I keep using just plain old clip on wheel weights.

The only deviation to that "rule" has been with my 50/50 - WW/Lead - alloy used in my 45/70.

So, guess my point would be start with just plain old dirty WW and go from there. Likely you'll find that not only was it a good place to start, but an alloy that will do just fine for about 90% of your needs.

Part of many folks reasons for casting to begin with, was the desire to save a bit of money or be able to shoot more for the same cost. So, with that thought in mind start with a known and very workable alloy, wheel weights, if available, until you have enough bullets/shooting under the belt to have solid base line results to compare too.

The old term, "keep it simple stupid" applies here, at least to begin with.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Good Cheer]

That cartridge on the bottom, back around '82 I designed around the wheel weight metal I had then to make my 200 yard deer dropper.

That one on the top, that's my big brothers 45-70 load. He just uses 500 grains of straight ol' soft lead at 1800 fps with accuracy better than virtually all hunting rifles. Blessed with natural trigger talent he could probably hunt Migs with it if he wanted to. But the reason for including it here is to say that he tinkered with his load until he didn't need an alloy any more, so between the two of us we pretty much proved that whatever is on hand can be made to work.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

what do you call that cartridge on the bottom 45-35? lol it looks like a fun one to shoot

[deadeye ruck]

It is versatile as long as you have the time to melt it, clean it up and use it accordingly.

The best part about it though by far is the price....can't usually argue with it.

[flint45]

I use ww for 90% of my shooting.Even use it in my B.P.ctg. loads works fine for what I am shooting the other 10% is j-words.

[fredj338]

I'd skip the hollow point too.
if you want penetration you don't need a bunch of frontal diameter mucking things up.
sheared petals are just gonna make the mass lower [ read: inhibits penetration]

you either go for some penetration with good frontal mass and weight retention.
or you go for penetration, straight line penetration, and enough frontal diameter to disrupt tissue on the way through. [and out the other side as much as possible]

I, like CDOC, prefer the 'you go for option'.

I haven't hunted this bullet yet, but I would.

[mozeppa]

and if all else fails.....you can make wheel weights out of them!

full circle of life!

[ikarus1]

I considered myself lucky to be able to get 160lbs worth of "ingots" aka tractor tire weights which I suspected to be mostly older WWs with more tin and antimony than newer production. They melt and cast perfectly and aircooling yields about a 12BHN which works for 99% of the casting that I do. I blend in range scrap if I want a little softer alloy.
When these are gone I will indeed be a sad man since my scrounging hasn't yielded enough COWW to replace what I'm using.