Telescoping polymer casings

[William Yanda]

Anyone else seen this?

I wonder if this is the next advance or another flash in the pan which will never amount to anything.

[TNsailorman]

I have heard of polymer cases but not telescoping polymer cases. What was your source of information? james

[Multigunner]

Its a development intended for the LSAT light machinegun.
They have experimented with caseless and cased telescoped ammunition.
The projectile is buried in the propellant.
I suppose the polymer case is to avoid damage to the cast propellant and provide a better seal.

[JSnover]

They tried something like using an aluminum case years ago (IIRC). Velocity was insufficient.

[TNsailorman]

I have read pieces on caseless ammo and trounds but the telescoping ammo was a new one on me. Somebody is always trying to come up with something new and that is good. Every once in a while someone does come up with some new idea or improvement over an existing idea that works. james

[Skipper]

Attachment 193192
http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...ed-ammunition/

Defense contractor Textron just unveiled a new rifle at the Modern Day Marine conference. Designed to use so-called "telescoped" ammunition, the new rifle promises a harder-hitting, lighter bullet for America's ground troops to fire.

[TNsailorman]

As the article says, adds more punch and that's not a bad thing. We'll see. The Army knew going into World War II that it didn't have a tank capable of fighting a tank battle, yet it developed the Sherman anyway. Cost the lives of a lot of good men and the bean counters won again.

[woodbutcher]

When it comes to govt procurement,can you say retarded idiots?
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Bigslug]

The way it sounds like they're headed with it, I vote "flash in the pan".

Sounds like yet another "not quite good enough" improvement - which might not actually be an improvement - that won't justify replacement of the M16/M4 and its entrenched logistics train of spare parts, trained armorers, and experienced instructors.

We got where we are because it was observed that very few soldiers were actually taking shots much past 200 yards, that ability to get a lot of rounds downrange mattered, as spelled out by Sharps, Spencer, Henry, and Winchester, and punctuated by the typical distance between front line trenches in WWI.

The idea of taking the current level of ammo performance and making it and its launch platform shorter, lighter, and less consuming of strategic materials (copper-based metal) has merit, but the approach suggested by that article indicates that they're headed for bulkier and more powerful, which history largely indicates has not been needed.

Those of us who ponder trajectory tables and bullet arcs to compensate for distance are pretty rare critters, and always have been. The modern trooper raised on video games instead of CCI Mini Mags won't use much of that reach if he's given it. Haptic feedback through a Gameboy controller doesn't simulate recoil well, and putting recoil back into the training cycle won't help matters.

If they want to use this technology to duplicate the performance envelope of current 5.56 with this technology, or use it to lighten the ammo load for squad and vehicle-mounted machineguns, cool - but I think the stated approach is beating around a bush that's already been beaten to toothpicks.

[mold maker]

Reinventing the Fred Flintstone wheel.

[mcdaniel.mac]

The main problem with plastic ammunition is one of heat. Brass cases serve as little heat sinks, and the caseless or polymer cases ammunition puts that much more heat into the system.

[10-x]

Everything new, is not good.

[MUSTANG]

I've come to think of these efforts as another form of Federal Government Corporate Welfare. When we have the Uniformed Services on the ground/sea based platforms telling us what they need, we get pretty good products. When we have Politicians/Engineers/Scientists/Physicists in cozy offices telling us what we need we generally get Tragedy.

[17nut]

H&K made the G11 with caseless telescopic ammo.
They made it work but Bundeswehr said: Nah we want 223 now. So they made the H&K 416.

Short video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0


Long video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyUY4ojPuM8

[mcdaniel.mac]

The G11 suffered the heat problem, but the ammunition sticks could break and then were useless, and partial reloads and topping off magazines was not possible. Interesting proof of concept, but very limited scope of operation.