Mastery of a Short barrel Super Blackhawk

[44MAG#1]

No you didn't explain it. You explained problem solving something that has nothing to do with BEING AFRAID OF RECOIL. You explained the solving of the problem of sight alignment and trigger control of someone who ISNT AFRAID OR RECOIL BUT HAS SIGHT ALIGNMENT AND TRIGGER CONTROL PROBLEMS unrelated,to the seperate problem of jerking the trigger and pushing the gun when the shooter knows there is going to be a bang with RESULTING RECOIL. Different things entirely.

[44man]

Dry firing may work if one is not afraid of recoil. If one is jumpy because of recoil it is iffy if it helps. No one has ever described how snapping an unloaded gun that one knows isn't going to go boom and recoil works. I don't think they ever will really.

I agree, dry fire has little use once a live round is in the chamber. It is all hogwash. Had an old timer here that never could hit a deer. I had him dry fire and he was steady as all get out. I loaded the gun and he cut tater furrows in front of him like crazy.
It is why I teach with larger guns first.
I have never seen anyone dry fire do the same with live fire.
Light triggers drive me nuts. My revolvers have triggers so light it is crazy, 19 oz on a few. Most average 1-1/2#. Off hand, they don't want to go off. Soon gun weight comes in but the finger seems to be stuck. Now for deer I never remember pulling at all, shot is gone with the right picture. Same with archery, never remember string gone. Full auto. I can't take a creepy trigger or a hard pull but even a very light one on paper sticks.
I do not believe dry fire is any help, only loss of fear of recoil works.
A new shooter comes here, he gets the .500 JRH first. Soon he is hitting and then I go down to the little .44 mag to see wonderful groups. Start with a .22 or dry fire but even a .38 live round makes a guy flinch.
Beat the gun to death with a dry fire picture and I bet you will flinch with a live round. Your brain is stupid and knows the gun is live. Load with empties and live in a revolver and watch a guy.

[44MAG#1]

44man,
On what you said I completely agree. Some arent afraid of recoil but have problems standing still. I do now. Weave and bobble a lot. Some have target panic. When they see the sights moving etc. they try to time the pull so when the sights or dot swing through the center of the bull they jerk the trigger. That is entirely different than being afraid of recoil. Some have a tough time knowing the difference between the two. Hence to the one that can't tell they recommend dry firing as the cure. Like saying one pill is a cure for all diseases.
Wouldnt that be nice? Just taking one pill that would cover all diseases. Maybe we could explain dryfiring to the drug companies as to how it cures all ailments of shooting so the could come up with one drug for all diseases. Everything from common colds to Cancer. All at twenty five cents a pill.

[44man]

44man,
On what you said I completely agree. Some arent afraid of recoil but have problems standing still. I do now. Weave and bobble a lot. Some have target panic. When they see the sights moving etc. they try to time the pull so when the sights or dot swing through the center of the bull they jerk the trigger. That is entirely different than being afraid of recoil. Some have a tough time knowing the difference between the two. Hence to the one that can't tell they recommend dry firing as the cure. Like saying one pill is a cure for all diseases.
Wouldnt that be nice? Just taking one pill that would cover all diseases. Maybe we could explain dryfiring to the drug companies as to how it cures all ailments of shooting so the could come up with one drug for all diseases. Everything from common colds to Cancer. All at twenty five cents a pill.

That is entirely true. I experienced it all my life. Move with a shake and make the gun fire as it passes the dot----MISS, MISS. My best shooting was to ignore movement and just break the trigger without making the gun shoot. No person on earth can hold still and age makes it worse.
Yanking a trigger will never hit. Even the super fast steel shooters have trigger control.

[Bazoo]

I dont have a problem dry firing, I can rest a penny on the front sight and dry fire without it falling off. I dont think I have a problem with flinching, as I can tell when I do flinch and pull a shot. Im relaxed and do well with specials, not as well as my moms single six however.

Inconsistency in the grip strength, and getting tense in the shoulders in anticipation of the recoil is my problems I think. I was allowing the gun to roll in my hand, But It was either jumping back and battering my knuckles, or rolling too far back and biting the web of my hand. So I began firming my grip more, which is not what im used to with the single six.

With the single six, I did a 1 1/2" group at 15 yards a few months back. With the super blackhawk, with specials, it opens up to 2 1/2 or 3 inches, and maybe 4 inches with magnum groups.

So im still working on keeping my grip consistent. But i do notice my shoulders getting tight, and when I get tired, my groups opening up. So im still working to get comfortable with the gun.

I am determined to master it though.

I dont shoot much past 50 yards with a handgun, but I can get 6" groups with the single six or my 45 at that distance.

[Blackwater]

Doug gives good advice, as usual. Dry firing CAN help to a HUGE degree IF it's practiced regularly so as to habituate your muscles and create a good, unflinching muscle memory. There really IS no "short course" to becoming a fine pistol shot. It'll take practice, unless you're very unusually gifted at it. Every great shot I know HAD to learn to shoot well. Not one shot all that great from the beginning. Good instruction helps a lot, and there's a lot more bad advice out there than there is good information. The one sure way to tell if advice is good or not is on the range. If it works, it's good (providing only that you actually DID what was shown/advised, of course). If it doesn't, forget it unless something makes you want to try it again later. As you learn grip, hold and squeeze, you'll improve, and the improvement can come in degrees or sudden leaps. Once you do it right, and see the results, you'll smile, and KEEP trying to do it that same way every time. That's when you're really leaning and improving.

Good shots aren't born, they're made, in almost all cases. Even the "natural" shots started off with excellent instruction, and they listened and did what they were told. Most folks are more reactive to the muzzle blast than to actual recoil, and a short barreled .44 is a real "boomer." You also might try some lighter loads with something like Unique for a while, and work your way up to the full loads. That tends to work for folks who react to the blast, at least. Holding an "explosion" at arm's length is NOT a "natural act," and there's no shame in reacting to it. However, one MUST learn to ignore it, and that can vary in how long it takes any given individual to learn to ignore it. Ear plugs plus muffs are a big help there. I routinely wear both when shooting a .44 because I already have tinnitus and don't want to lose what hearing I have left, so if it's "sissy" to wear plugs and muffs (good, high Db rating ones!), then paint me with sissy paint. But I've lost too much of my hearing already. Let the macho types say "eh?" when they get old and can't hear an airplane taking off!

Other than this, grips CAN definitely make a big difference. I have a 4 5/8" SB and it's got the SB grip frame, which I like. It also has some slightly oversize stag grips on it, which I also like and shoot better than the much thinner factory grips. Usually, grips that are thicker up top, behind the trigger, help most with fairly large to large hands, shoot better with SA's, regardless of grip formation. I've always been a big fan of Gary Reeder's grips, with their rounded off "points" at heel and toe. Very easy and fast to grab, and the larger girth at top tends to help handle recoil. I want to get some curly maple and make a set of "custom" grips for several of my SA Rugers, but haven't pulled the trigger on that just yet. Might even try rounding the bottom "points" on the grips, a' la' Reeder's grips.

Ultimately, handgun use is much more dependent on the grips fitting the shooter's hands than most realize, and there's no way any factory can make them fit everyone, so ... we get an "approximation" of what might at least allow many people to shoot them at least fairly well.

Really, managing recoil and our natural fear of loud booms, and learning to fell the hammer without disturbing our aim, is what it's all about. Good, well fitting grips help with that, and can allow most of us achieve our best a bit quicker and probably a bit more consistently, but good custom grips CAN be expensive. Someone here recommended Altamont Grips to me and I got a couple of pairs for my Flat Tops, and they're pretty good. You might give them a try. Their prices are about as good as you'll find, and workmanship is good to boot. From them, you should be able to learn just what it is that you really want in a grip. If I order them, I usually specify they be oversize, and then sand them down slowly until I've got what works and fits me best. Takes a while, but it's worth all the "trouble." Sure beats shooting with grips that don't fit me quite right,and helps me be more consistent. It's just the way things really are with handguns, I think.

[44MAG#1]

Anticipation of recoil means one thing. Flinching. Play the ball and dummy game and see it that is it.
Best to let a friend load the live and dummies so you won't know.
Then get back to us.

[Bazoo]

Get a roll of that 1" wide stretchy bandage stuff and wrap the middle finger knuckle.. Shooting gloves all have the padding where the gun doesn't hurt you. Lotta good that does.

Now. Let me ask you this. In dry fire, can you hold the sights motionless? If not, this is what's wrong with your groups. First off, remove the grip panels and pull one leg of the trigger return spring off it's pin, reinstall the grip panels and try it like this. The goal is to dry fire the gun and hold the sights motionless. Take a mental snapshot of the sights the moment the hammer falls. What did the front sight do? Did it dip down and to the left? Then the boolit that would have been fired, hit low and to the left.

Curl your trigger finger a bit to the right when you pull the trigger. This will help you hold the sights still. Not quite standing stock still when the hammer falls after pulling one leg of the spring off? Swap in a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring from Brownell's. This will help a LOT. Still not staying still? Pull one leg of this lighter spring off and try again.

By now, you should have gotten the basics of the dry fire drill down. DON'T force the trigger, pull evenly on it, if the sights drift off bullseye, hold steady until they drift back to bullseye and resume pressing on the trigger. Let the shot be a SURPRISE to you. DON'T anticipate it, it will learn you to flinch which opens groups by multiples of 3s and 4s.

When you can dry fire the gun and hold the sights motionless, your groups will have shrunk tremendously. THIS is what is required to master a SA revolver. That long hammer fall has to be controlled and you use the dry fire exercise to learn your hands to do this. Keep a mental note of exactly how you held the gun and the exact movement of your trigger finger and go live fire the gun. This also works for a 1911, or any other single action handgun.

DON'T worry so much about the grip, do what feels natural to you, the key is to let the gun move the same way every time in the hands. It's all about consistency. The gun WILL recoil in your hands, let it do the same physical motion from shot to shot.

Good luck, this bit of wit has helped many shooters tighten groups.

Also check out the gun's mechanics. Can you slide a boolit through the cylinder throats from the front? If not, there's part of the issue, the cylinder is sizing the boolits down before they even get out of the case. Is there just too much creep in the trigger? Might want to send a PM if you are interested in correcting any of the typical culprits that ship installed free from the factory..

I can push a bullet into the throats, the trigger is pretty decent, crisp, i'd guess about 4 1/2 pounds knowing my 1911 has a 5 pound pull. I do have a constriction at the theads. Im not sure how much, from the tightness when slugging, i'd say a smidge.

I've been working to get a consistent grip with the gun. I have held it enough, for long enough during periods that it now feels off whenever my grip is not in the correct spot. Im still working on getting consistency in the force of the grip though.

[Bazoo]

On several occasions, i have done several live rounds, with empties to help overcome flinching, and I dont have a problem with it now. Thats how i got my groups to improve thus far. But i still have problems with getting tense in the shoulders, and not allowing my arms to move under recoil, unless I concentrate on it.

[Texas by God]

I never kept a Super Blackhawk because I don't like the grip. The same with Bisleys. I prefer the standard model. That said the Pachmayers will help you and they're not AS ugly as Houges IMO.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm with 44 man. Never saw a big improvement in shooting by having someone dry fire a gun unless they never shot a gun before or did rarely. About any novice instantly changes everything when live rounds are going off and that's what you have to work at. Stand there and watch him well while hes shooting. Maybe start with lighter loads and work up to the real heavys. I think most of us that shoot a lot will say that we don't put much thought into pulling the trigger. Its something we just learned over the years until its kind of an instinct. Being afraid of a gun is what you need to cure not jerking the trigger because its being afraid of the gun that causes it. Work up slowly and shoot a few thousand rounds and you will suddenly have a light bulb go off in your head because you realize that yes this thing bucks and barks but it really doesn't cause you pain. When you get to that point you can then perfect your trigger pull because you can actually consentrate on it not the recoil

[Thumbcocker]

"Ultimately, handgun use is much more dependent on the grips fitting the shooter's hands than most realize, and there's no way any factory can make them fit everyone, so ... we get an "approximation" of what might at least allow many people to shoot them at least fairly well."


I absolutely agree. A handgun is a personal thing so make yours fit you.

[Blackwater]

On several occasions, i have done several live rounds, with empties to help overcome flinching, and I dont have a problem with it now. Thats how i got my groups to improve thus far. But i still have problems with getting tense in the shoulders, and not allowing my arms to move under recoil, unless I concentrate on it.

You're on the right track, and progressing. Just don't give up, and you'll be a real shootist before long. A good, firm grip on grips that pretty closely fit your hand, and a trigger squeeze that doesn't let the barrel move on the sear's release, and sight alignment, are pretty much all there is to it, really. But simple is not the same as "easy," and learning to keep just the right, consistent and firm grip, keeping your forearms fairly stiff, and your focus on your sights, is a real learning experience. Focus matters, as do all the other factors. Learning the right "feel" of the grip and forearms is an acquired thing, that has to come from practice. It MIGHT help to use midrange loads until you get accurate with them, but that doesn't always work. With a .44, I always wear plugs AND muffs, and that helps more than most are willing to believe.

You're on the right track. Just keep striving until you arrive at the Station. I'm betting that won't be nearly as long as you think it will be, too.

[Bazoo]

Thats for the advice and encouragement Blackwater, and everyone. When shooting specials, I do pretty decent. Then, when i switch to magnums, I do okay for a few cylinders, and then start back pulling left, getting tense, being inconsistent. So I then switch back to specials and do good again. I aint gave up yet, but its definitely been the hardest time i've ever had trying to get decent with any handgun.

[Blackwater]

Sounds like the muzzle blast is getting to you, and maybe fatigue from recoil as well. Try this. Before continuing, just relax, and I mean REALLY get yourself relaxed, and resign yourself definitively to just letting the gun buck when you shoot. Use plugs and muffs to deal with the blast. You'll thank yourself for this later in life when you have no or very little ringing in your ears! The magnum pistols are the worst offenders of all in creating tinnitus, but it's too late for me now. I didn't follow that advice early on, and now, that permanent ringing in my ears is a constant thing, that NEVER goes away!

The biggest factor for many (myself included at times) in learning to shoot the magnums consistently is in training ourselves to be constantly relaxed before pulling the trigger. This allows your muscles to learn the memory of the feel of the right grip you've chosen to use, and therein, leads you to better shooting more quickly.

My primary problem in shooting a shotgun is that I'm so prone to being excited (I LOVE shooting the shotgun!) that I tighten up and thus, stop my swing on pulling the trigger. I've shot behind more birds and targets than many have even SEEN! It's a constant problem for me to relax when shooting a shotgun. The anticipation and fun of it just overwhelms me. But it's so much fun, I don't even put forth all the effort to "cure" it that I probably should. For me, shotgun shooting is "play," and rifle and pistol shooting is more business-like. I guess we all have our little foibles in this? That's just mine. But get me in competition, and I usually do better than I do simply shooting for fun. As has been said, the biggest six inches in doing many things is between our ears. Attitude and intentions are always a BIG factor in shooting! But we CAN learn. And I just need to settle myself down with the shotgun and be a little more serious .... at least more often?

[Tar Heel]

I would suggest putting the wood smooth grips back on the gun to let the grip/gun slip a little in your grasp like a clutch. I also use a shooting glove on both hands when shooting my hard kicking wood gripped handguns. I use the gloves to reduce the "slap" one gets in the hand. A firm grip is requisite - NOT a death grip or a loose grip. Allow the gun to recoil.

Attachment 193477

https://youtu.be/ZhAE6CPSlOU

[bearcove]

Just throw in a random 2, 3, or 4 in when you shoot. You will see your real flinch when you dry fire.

[Bazoo]

Yeah, thats what I do bearcove. sometimes I'll flinch, sometimes, not. It does help though.

[44man]

Just throw in a random 2, 3, or 4 in when you shoot. You will see your real flinch when you dry fire.

That is the best way, I load the gun for friends so they can't guess where a live one is.

[Rick R]

I have that same pistol. The rubber Hogues made a huge improvement in shootabillity and accuracy over the OEM grips. I replaced the rubber duckies with wooden single finger groove Hogues and things got better.

The 4 5/8" SBH is a wonderful little cannon once you fit it to your hands.