Winchester 94ae 44 mag ??'s

[slips73]

I just picked up a winchester 94ae in .44 mag that appears to be unfired, before I fire it I have a few safety questions, I am more familiar with the pre 64 action and the 30-30's. This one was really clean and I want it for a scabbard gun, but I am curious about the seating of the link (plate?) on the underside of the action. The link does not seat flush when the lever is closed shut, I could move it just very slightly after by pushing up on it (after the action is closed), which places the locking bolt just a little higher, but the link itself is not flush, is this something I should be concerned about?




Locking bolt not completely flush with the top of the receiver.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That's a fitting issue, but not a safety issue, with the AE series. In the position shown in your photos, if you cock the hammer and pull the trigger without having your fingers through the lever, the rifle should not fire. When your fingers are in the lever and you squeeze it upward against the tang at the bottom of the stock the plate should move up to flush with the bottom of the receiver, and the locking lugs should move all the way up into the locked position and the hammer should drop. If this does not happen that way, then you need to have a gunsmith take a look at it; but I'm pretty sure you'll find it as I've described.

[nagantguy]

That's a fitting issue, but not a safety issue, with the AE series. In the position shown in your photos, if you cock the hammer and pull the trigger without having your fingers through the lever, the rifle should not fire. When your fingers are in the lever and you squeeze it upward against the tang at the bottom of the stock the plate should move up to flush with the bottom of the receiver, and the locking lugs should move all the way up into the locked position and the hammer should drop. If this does not happen that way, then you need to have a gunsmith take a look at it; but I'm pretty sure you'll find it as I've described.

Second that exactly;have the exact rifle and it is so; it's now my daughters rifle after she used it to kill her first deer;I'd never ever let her use or shoot it if it was a safety issue! Beautiful rifle did it cost a fortune in the unfired condition!

[slips73]

Squeezed tightly with my hand through the lever, and the trigger detent depressed, it doesnt move the link plate and bolt do not move much futher, and definitely not flush. What is seen in the photos is about as far as it goes, unless I use some finger pressure on the link plate, then the lock bolt will be just shy of flush.

That's a fitting issue, but not a safety issue, with the AE series. In the position shown in your photos, if you cock the hammer and pull the trigger without having your fingers through the lever, the rifle should not fire. When your fingers are in the lever and you squeeze it upward against the tang at the bottom of the stock the plate should move up to flush with the bottom of the receiver, and the locking lugs should move all the way up into the locked position and the hammer should drop. If this does not happen that way, then you need to have a gunsmith take a look at it; but I'm pretty sure you'll find it as I've described.

[OlDeuce]

I have that same '94AE in .44 mag!! "1894-1994" spade wood.......They are a Great shooter

[Greg S]

See the lever coming out from the bottom tang. That is the trigger lock safety to insure the lever/bolt is fully closed. If no fully closed, it pevents dischaging the firearm.

[slips73]

See the lever coming out from the bottom tang. That is the trigger lock safety to insure the lever/bolt is fully closed. If no fully closed, it pevents dischaging the firearm.

I understand that, it was more the fact that even when depressed, the lock bolt and link plate do not seat completely flush.

[modified5]

It sounds like the groove in the lever for the link pin is too big and not allowing it to close all the way. You could either tig weld and fit, or try another lever.
If that's the problem, I would weld and fit it.
Hope this helps.

[slips73]

It sounds like the groove in the lever for the link pin is too big and not allowing it to close all the way. You could either tig weld and fit, or try another lever.
If that's the problem, I would weld and fit it.
Hope this helps.

How would I know if this is the issue without trying a new lever? Is the rifle shootable as is.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It is safe to shoot as-is. If you want the parts to be flush at the time of discharge then, as I said, it is a fitting issue. You will need one or two parts with tighter tolerances to change the fit. The locking lugs and their engaging shoulders are 1 1/2 - 2 inches in length, and yours shows very little that is not engaged. No, it is not perfection like a Win. '94 that left the factory in 1948, but like many things made now days it is serviceable.

[slips73]

It is safe to shoot as-is. If you want the parts to be flush at the time of discharge then, as I said, it is a fitting issue. You will need one or two parts with tighter tolerances to change the fit. The locking lugs and their engaging shoulders are 1 1/2 - 2 inches in length, and yours shows very little that is not engaged. No, it is not perfection like a Win. '94 that left the factory in 1948, but like many things made now days it is serviceable.

that makes sense, I guess I am just spoiled with my 1950 winchester that is a tackdriver and locks up tight, I guess I didnt really think about the entire locking block, just made me nervous about it possibly not being locked up, would the new part I need to buy, be the link and finger lever?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That might do the job, but were it me I would take it to a competent gunsmith. If you buy parts that are of current manufacture or contemporary with the date of your rifle you may install them and have exactly the same situation. Tightening it up may require a little peening, a bit of weld, or even making an oversized link, and I'd leave that to someone who has worked on these rifles before. Be very specific with him about what the problem is and what result you desire, and if he has a blank look on his face try someone else.

[runfiverun]

squeeze that handle just a bit more.
if you notice there is a little tab under the lever you have to depress that for the rifle to fire.

one more thing.
these rifles have shallow rifling and groove diameters on the large side.
don't be surprised if you have to go to 432 or maybe 433 for it to shoot well.
I had a swage die made to 430 to make jacketed rnfp's for mine.

[rondog]

I also have one, the "1894-1994" AE in .44 mag. Great little rifle, I call it Thumper. But yes, it does prefer fatter bullets. I've yet to find the right cast bullet for it though.

[Shuz]

I also have an 1894-1994 Winchester AE in .44 mag. The boolits that work well in mine are the Lee 200g RNFP and a custom Lee 225g RNFP(same profile, just heavier). I size mine to .431 and they shoot well. I use 7g of Trail Boss, or 8.6g of Green Dot.

[robg]

My friends 44mag and my 357mag are the same .great guns but the 44 benefits more with a kick easy butt pad.

[slips73]

It is safe to shoot as-is. If you want the parts to be flush at the time of discharge then, as I said, it is a fitting issue. You will need one or two parts with tighter tolerances to change the fit. The locking lugs and their engaging shoulders are 1 1/2 - 2 inches in length, and yours shows very little that is not engaged. No, it is not perfection like a Win. '94 that left the factory in 1948, but like many things made now days it is serviceable.

my thoughts now are that it is the lever/trigger safety stop that protudes too far from the lower tang, if you look at this photo of another 44 mag ae i found it has the same issue clearly. And i removed the tang to check, sure enough it locks up and seats flush without the tang, my though now is its either the lever or that pin protruding being excessively long, as I found photos of fitted ones, and that pin appears to bear shorter.

[

[slips73]

Actually it appears to be an issue of the lever possibly being bent, or contacting the tang too early.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, there's always the unexpected. I didn't know that you had a curved lever. They are far less common in '94s than the straight variety. It would appear that your observations are good ones, and perhaps that is where the trouble lies. So, if it was on my bench, I would first do what you have done, which is to compare it to another one that locks up completely. I think that the pin does appear to be longer than those I've seen. Actually, I have a number of Win. '94s, but all have the straight lever, so the comparison may not be valid, but on mine the pin appears shorter. So you will have to determine (as you said) if the pin is too long or the lever's curve is insufficient and it contacts the tang before the lever is completely depressed, or a combination of both. The pin is easy enough to shorten a bit as needed, but the curve of the lever is a more difficult matter. If you grind or file some of the metal off the top of the lever you will weaken it and it may look peculiar. It could be heated and bent.You may be able to isolate the problem by taking the pin out completely and reassembling the rifle and seeing if the bottom plate and locking lugs will fully engage without the pin. If so, then the pin is too long. If not, and the top of the lever is against the tang, then the lever is the problem. If it is the lever, possibly it is just this individual lever and a replacement will solve your problem. As I don't have the rifle in front of me it's difficult to diagnose and say for certain what the cure is, but you seem to be on the right track. One last thought, perhaps not a good one, if you determine that it is the lever and can't get a replacement it would be easy enough to convert to the more conventional straight wrist design, probably only needing a different lever, tang, and buttstock.