What do you consider a "good" 44 mag group?

[fatelvis]

Thanks Gunarea, I had no idea that section even existed! LOL that type of shooting is exactly what I enjoy the most. Thanks for the heads up!


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[44man]

No 629 in the 50's. S&W did not make a stainless gun for a long time. 29's were ALL blue.
I got my first Ruger and S&W in 1956. Ruger might have been the first maker to go to stainless and they found trouble with galling. Same alloy against the same alloy does not work so they changed parts that touched.
If you have any knowledge of a S&W, the 6 is for stainless. If you find one made in the 50's I will buy lunch.
I did measure twist in mine but the rates are NOT listed at the factory site. But the S&W forums confirmed my findings. Ruger started with a 1 in 20" but not S&W.
I have watched thousands of bullets go downrange at IHMSA shoots.
Forrest r, your keyboard must be under your butt.
I need to tell you, I had dies, a mold, 2400 powder and factory loads for brass long before my first Ruger showed up in the mail. I was shooting the 429421 to over 500 yards in 56 and beyond. We shot the devil out of the 29's, even DA with cardboard stuffed in tires to roll down a hill.
My SBH has near 83,000 rounds through it. No punk loads to speak of. A few for cans with Unique and 231 with a light boolit. Not standard fare.
If you knew the .44 you would help but you do nothing but make trouble.
The 629 came out in 1978.

[44MAG#1]

44man,
Just being nosey, how old were you in 1956?

[44man]

44man,
Just being nosey, how old were you in 1956?

I was 19. Had years of casting, loading, shotgun, etc, before. I was delivering papers on a bike and could buy guns. Store credit with no interest. Think I was 16 with my first revolver, a model 27. Cast for it too. Guns came in the mail then. I loved Herters.
a 25# bag of shot was $5 at the store. Powder was a few bucks. Primers were dead cheap.
There was no hazmat then either. That started with UPS when a jerk tossed a box of primers in the truck. I worked for United Airlines 42 years and made out hazmat forms. It did not add cost at all. just a piece of paper and to place things in the plane in the right place.
Next day air came from stolen pistols even from locked areas. Increase costs. Hazmat is just more money sucked for no reason, Just a few minutes of paper work. Do not load this liquid next to an igniter. It really is where you put stuff in the plane or truck. To charge you is fake, it is just profit.
Shipping and handling is another beef. Buy a 20 cent spring and it costs $15 to send. postage is 50 cents or less. Back in the day it just cost postage.
Like Elmer said, I was there.

[white eagle]

Iron sighted revo at 50 yds I would consider that excellent
looks like you found your load

[Tom W.]

Y'all can put on your rubber boots if you want, but back maybe around 2009 when I was younger and healthy, I was at the range with my buddy. The handgun range was to the right of the range, with sidewalks every five yards from the targets. No canopies, no benches. Offhand only. I had loaded up some Lee 310 cast with coww and a book load. I posted a target and beings that my truck was parked close I went back to the 25 yard line and started to fire at said target, leaving my extra ammo in the truck. I fired four rounds from my Ruger SRH and noticed someone pulling up and watching me. I finished my last two rounds and saw that the car was the local sheriff. He asked me to bring my target so he could look at it. It was one of my better, or luckier days. Four were in the ten,one cut the X out, and the other cut the black and 9. The sheriff looked at the target, looked at me, and asked to see my ammunition. I went to the truck and brought him a loaded round. He said "If someone breaks into your house you won't need to call 911. You'll just have to call the coroner."
I do believe that's the best compliment I've had about my shooting. He took the target.

[44MAG#1]

What type of target. A twenty five official slowfire target is sure different than a B-27. A timed and rapid fire twenty five is different than a twenty five yard slow fire target.

[Blackwater]

Wow! I had to wince a little when I read the title, because my eyesight and the steadiness in my hand are .... let's call it "challenged" these days. Back when I was in what served for my prime, 3" at 100 was my goal, and I could occasionally beat that, but probably averaged something close to that. Sometimes 4", and an occasional "flier" that I always blamed on my casting would crop up. Now? I haven't shot at 100 lately, so I'm not sure, but in all honesty, I'd probably be glad to keep them all on an 8" paper plate at 100 now. This gittin' old ain't for sissies! But I appreciate my shooting more, now, and I STILL wouldn't want me shooting at me, even at 200, so .... I guess I'll have to just be thankful for what I still have on the ball these days? My best shooting buddy could always shade me because he had the eyes of an eagle. That kept me honest and striving. Once in a while, I'd beat him, but it was a red letter day for me when I did that. And he NEVER let me leave without a rematch, which he usually "won." Sure keeps a fella' humble!

But shooting with someone who's better than you are is a great way to get better, especially if you LISTEN to them, and even moreso if they're a really good observer and can tell you what you did wrong when you get a "flier." Shooting partners like this are NOT common, but worth all the effort you can put forth to find them. Always!

[44MAG#1]

You could shoot 3 inch groups offhand/freehand standing at 100 yards? Great.

[bluejay75]

Im normally looking for a rounded ragged hole at 25 yards. Any bigger and Im looking at 3 or more inches at 100 yards.

[fatelvis]

Im normally looking for a rounded ragged hole at 25 yards. Any bigger and Im looking at 3 or more inches at 100 yards.

Using iron sights?


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[bluejay75]

Whether iron sights or scoped. When scoped...Im looking for as close to one hole as I can get.

[Tom W.]

What type of target. A twenty five official slowfire target is sure different than a B-27. A timed and rapid fire twenty five is different than a twenty five yard slow fire target.

That part I can't remember. Probably something I bought at the gun shop or Walmart. Eight years is pushing my memory of minor details.

[Forrest r]

Repeatable accuracy is where it's at. 1/2/3 shot groups mean nothing. All the twist yada-yada-yada is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Glad the 629 thing got cleared up, now that 1956 for the (1st) s&w got nailed down. Hate to say it the s&w 29/629's have always been 1 in 20 twists. A link to the history of the s&w 44magnum then model 29 (starting in 1957) with every change s&w did to them along with the dates and suffex #'s for those changes. John Taffin did an excellent article on the full history of the s&w 44mag. Here's the link for your reading pleasure.
http://www.sixguns.com/range/SmithWesson44Mag.htm

Why do I keep quoting Taffin???

Perhaps it might have something to do with this link.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ghlight=taffin

Post #23 in the link above where 44man states:
I screwed up at that site by posting some group pictures and told the story about the one time I put 3 shots in 2-1/2" at 500 yards. I explained it only happened once and I will never do it again but was just showing the boolit design is stable. Now it is constantly thrown in my face that I claim to shoot groups like that. All of you know I can't do it. It was just a one time miracle and I must have shook the same each shot!

I'm not going to bother going thru the archives showing where 44man has made multiple clams that he can do 2 1/2" groups @ 500yds. That 3" fish turned into a 30" fish several years later.

I see posts all the time with a couple holes in targets or a can or cherry picked targets. They really don't mean much. Years ago I had a 1500yd rifle range and me & my brother were sighting in a 300mag that we put a new scope on. Used to shoot 3-shot find the center and move the scope. Anyway I shot 2 shots and the shim under the scope shifted so we had to re-set/re-test. Went down to paste the target up and saw the 2 bullet holes were within 6" of each other. I guess I could claim I can shoot 6" groups @ 1500yds or I could keep my mouth shut and go back and shoot a 10-shot group and post what really happens.

Why 10-shot groups???
You get true scores and something to compare your score to. There's been a lot of talk about what silhoutette shooters do to compare groups to what you can do. At the end of the day they do 10-shot strings for some odd reason, not 1/2/3, a full 10-shot for score. The big picture, if you can do 10-shot 3" groups @ 100yds you're firearm/load has the ability to allow you to be a national champion at such events like nra bullseye or any of the silhouette events. Heck a ram @ 200m is 26" x 32".

You want to separate the wheat from the chaff, instead of laying down and supporting a revolver to shoot a 26" x 32" ram @ 200m. Try shooting a 6 1/2" x 5" ram standing @100m.
[IMG][/IMG]

If you can consistently do 3" 10-shot groups @ 100yds you can rule the world.

[Thumbcocker]

When shooting at 100 yards or further do you adjust the sight to that range or use the "hold up a dab of front sight" method?.

[44man]

Never claimed I could shoot 2-1/2" at 500 all the time and always said it was my best group. It was shot Ultra Dot from Creedmore. Can't adjust the red dot enough so at 500 yards and 500 meters I aimed at a tree branch behind to what I estimate at 26' above the steel.
No, I can't shoot off hand for beans anymore. I am 79. Even Creedmore is a shaking contest.
Now you bring single shots and a real funny set up to boot. OK, the Wichita has done tiny groups at 200 meters and the MOA put 5 shots in 3/8" at 100.
OH dang, sandbags but open sights too. The Wichita did 1-7/8" at 200.
You do not want to hear what my XP100 could do after I made a custom stock for it.

[44man]

I don't shoot 10 shots from revolvers, 5 shot groups but working loads will be 3 shots each. Once I find the load, then it will be 5 shots to confirm and over years it stays the same. My SBH has 83,000 heavy rounds through it and still shoots the same. I have nothing to prove with 10 shot groups. Just tires a guy out faster.

[243winxb]

I seem to remember the smallest groups and forget the really bad ones.

This is why i use an average or a target for score to compare.

Remember, groups on the interweb are always smaller than in real time.

[44MAG#1]

It is what a person can do on the average that determines how well they can shoot. Not what is doneonce in a while. If one shoots 20 target one is going to have a target in the 20 that will be a glory halallujah target and one the shooter can't get to it fast enough to get it down before anyone else sees it. The others will be somewhere between the two. It is what you can do on a regular basis day in and day out that establishes how good you are. Not your luckiest day or your most unlucky day. If one shoots hundreds of targets from the bench or offhand and keeps only the best targets one will have several astounding targets one can show to people. What did your average targets look like is the question. This goes for. All of us.

[Kraschenbirn]

It is what a person can do on the average that determines how well they can shoot. Not what is done once in a while...

Amen, Brother!! Day before yesterday, I was testing some .308 loads in an M700. Seven of my first 200-yard group went into just over 2" with two called flyers and one "Wha...?". Second target, same load, ten shots inside the 3" bull. Final group, eight in the bull and two flyers; one called and one (huh?). Now, I know the load needs a bit of tuning and will continue to tinker with it but which target do you think is tacked on the wall of my workshop?

Bill