Just getting started.

[toallmy]

A nice crimp will just kinda pop in place and stay closed with almost room for a dime to set in it , it is possible to apply to much pressure and push the hull side up into the crimp especially when pre crimping making the crimping part of the shell to long to fold in nice and tight . I believe what you are doing is learning the art of producing a beautiful crimp , and with a lee loader it is more about the feel . You can see where the original crimp was on the side of the hull the load must leave room to allow the finished crimp to fit down in the hull a little bit to keep it closed . As far as the slug barrel I can't help you , I buy things when I want them so I pay to much , then when I don't want it is worth much less to me . On a side note I hope you got a deal on your shotgun because I got the felling your hooked . Good choice on the Mossberg swapping barrels make them very handy , cruise ebay or gun broker for a used slug barrel .

[RogerDat]

Good idea on those places to check for prices on a slug barrel. I'll have to do some surfing on those sites.

Daughter learned to handle a shotgun on a Mossberg 500 Junior in 20 gauge, and the obscene phone caller who was harassing my wife decided to stop calling when he heard that same shotgun slide go snick-snick in the phone. Hanging up, or using a loud whistle in the phone didn't discourage him, shot gun in the home did. So I have a special affection for that make and model. I just wish I had bought the 2 barrel 12 gauge package back in the day.

[dverna]

I started with a cheap MEC. It will make decent shells. You should be able to get one for $50-75.

There is no need for overshot wads.

Crimp affects ballistics and pressure. The depth should be about the height of a dime. You will find every hull/load requires a different setup to get good results. Sort your hulls.

After wasting time fiddling around, you will decide life is easier if you use one make of hull. STS are the best and you can use AA wads in them. If cost is a factor, go to your local Trap or skeet club and see what is in the scrap bin. They will give them away. I suspect it will be Top Guns or Estates and they are interchangeable. You will need different wads than you have purchased but wads are cheap. Let the hulls air dry for a couple of weeks as they have paper base wads. Use them once and pitch them.

The last time I purchased hulls, I paid $50/1000 for STS's. AA's should be a tad less. The Gun Club is another good hull and about $25/1000.

I know you stated quality was not important to you. I hope you are making excuses for trying to do this with Lee Loaders. Quality does matter.

[RogerDat]

I started with a cheap MEC. It will make decent shells. You should be able to get one for $50-75.

There is no need for overshot wads.

Crimp affects ballistics and pressure. The depth should be about the height of a dime. You will find every hull/load requires a different setup to get good results. Sort your hulls.

After wasting time fiddling around, you will decide life is easier if you use one make of hull. STS are the best and you can use AA wads in them. If cost is a factor, go to your local Trap or skeet club and see what is in the scrap bin. They will give them away. I suspect it will be Top Guns or Estates and they are interchangeable. You will need different wads than you have purchased but wads are cheap. Let the hulls air dry for a couple of weeks as they have paper base wads. Use them once and pitch them.

The last time I purchased hulls, I paid $50/1000 for STS's. AA's should be a tad less. The Gun Club is another good hull and about $25/1000.

I know you stated quality was not important to you. I hope you are making excuses for trying to do this with Lee Loaders. Quality does matter.

I'm not trying to build "superior" quality shotgun ammo at this time. Or a lot of shells. I just want to see what this is about. Insure that I can make useable ammo for a shotgun. I have read that those hulls you mention are good hulls. What I was sent by a member here is an assortment. Has some gun club 20's and a good number of Universal in both 20 & 12. If I loaded all of those Universals up they would easily last me a couple of years or more. Nothing premium but at least consistent.

I plan on doing some poking to see what this is all about, and really don't mind the fiddly-farting around to make them in small batches. I hope to go to the range in a week or two, try some out. It does seem probable at some point I'll want some better grade of hulls, and then I'll either load a couple of boxes to have on the shelf, or a box each of a few different sizes of shot.

I'll maybe play around a bit with different load recipes. Light loads would make it easier for grandkids and daughters or daughter in law to shoot so that might be possibility too.

I can't possibly figure I will shoot enough to justify buying 1000 hulls. If I bought 500 that would last me for years, especially if they were good hulls I could load multiple times. This also means my return on buying equipment is not so hot, which moves a MEC further down the budget list than say a gas check maker in 8mm. After all I if I can load 12 gauge & 20 gauge by hand but can't make 8mm gas checks... and since both would cost near the same amount which do I need more? Or a $60 mold to cast shot with? Or an $85 shot dripper, but judging from the sort of messy nature of that operation I think dear wife might have an opinion on that.

On the other hand as I learn more about loading for shotgun, and read more about equipment and options I may well find myself comfortable buying a used MEC knowing I'm not buying a money pit that will just waste space on the bench or shelf until I can locate needed parts. Lot of used ones might be good deals but right now I wouldn't know a good deal from "good luck finding parts for that" or "that part you need is $$$ and that other part is shot and isn't cheap either". With some shotgun loading experience I may have a clearer idea of what I want to load too which would translate into knowing what I need to have the ability to make shot/slugs for that load.

I like quality, I just don't like buying stuff I don't use or don't really need, even when I'm trying to make excuses

[dverna]

RogerDat,

Just south of you in Mason are the Michigan Trap grounds. They are having a shoot there Thursday-Sunday of this week...but I will not be attending this year. This is where the major shoots happen in MI. If you ever need to buy components, that is the place to do it. Roger Brenner (AJ Supplies) is the guy I buy from. His prices are good and he even has rifle powders occasionally. He does not take credit cards but checks are OK. If there is a problem with paying by check tell him you know me.

I sell hulls regularly, so if you need only a few hundred contact me. I am at most of the shoots in Mason and there would be no shipping costs. Shipping costs on small quantities is a killer. But if you can scrounge hulls at a local range, that is the best value of all. BTW Universal hulls are load once and pitch.

At the range, the best way to check your loads is on a patterning board. You want to look for "holes" in your pattern...holes are a sign of a poor fitting/crushed/tilted wad or powder choice. It will also tell you if your POI is close to POA. I know how to adjust POI if you need help with that.

I plan on attending the Great Lakes Grand May 23- 28 and the MI State shoot June 27-July 2. If you want to get together let me know. I would be glad to help out if I can.

BTW, I normally start women and kids out with a 7/8 oz load at 1000 fps. This is equivalent to the Winchester AA Featherlight load. Very soft shooting and low noise. If you want your kids to try a couple of boxes, I will bring them down if we get together...no cost BTW. The only problem, is once they shoot them, they will not want to shoot normal loads...LOL. I load them for less than $4 a box...retail they are over $9. It will not take long to pay back a MEC.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Been loading shotshells since the mid `60`s. Have loaded a literal ton of skeet, trap and hunting loaded shells. Keep it simple by following the recomendations in a Lyman shotshell loading manual for the gauge and load you have in mind. It boils down to the hull, a primer, a brand and load of powder, a 1 piece wad, and of course the shot load. The loader itself really boils down to what you`ve got to use. Since my health has been going South my loading setup has been gathering dust for a few years.Robert

[RogerDat]

Been loading shotshells since the mid `60`s. Have loaded a literal ton of skeet, trap and hunting loaded shells. Keep it simple by following the recomendations in a Lyman shotshell loading manual for the gauge and load you have in mind. It boils down to the hull, a primer, a brand and load of powder, a 1 piece wad, and of course the shot load. The loader itself really boils down to what you`ve got to use. Since my health has been going South my loading setup has been gathering dust for a few years.Robert

Sorry to hear about your health. Appreciate you taking the time to encourage me on my journey.

[Just south of you in Mason are the Michigan Trap grounds. They are having a shoot there Thursday-Sunday of this week...but I will not be attending this year. This is where the major shoots happen in MI.....

Don thanks for that information. I looked them up and had no idea that MTA existed and was that local. I may PM you to arrange something while you are here for one of the events, appreciate the offer of help with supplies. Might be interesting just to watch for a bit, and maybe grab something to eat. I had heard that about the Universal hulls being a use once and pitch. I'll gain some experience on them and then try and settle on what I want to have on hand. On the plus side once I sort this out I may be able to stock up on a lifetime supply of good quality components for not too much cash. But man those bags of wads or hulls take up a lot of space! I may have to have a garage sale and sell wife's decorations stored in the basement to clear some shelves. Oops, did I say that out loud?

On one hand it is so simple but on the other it seems like there is always more to learn. Keeps me from being bored or becoming obsessed with doing the yard work so I guess it is a good thing.

[toallmy]

Trying to figure out what happened to make the bad crimps , and good crimps is time well spent . Some pictures could help also . I started with a lee load all so I have a lot of experience with bad crimps and mashed hulls .

[dverna]

RogerDat,

If you ever need wads, I can certainly spare a few hundred. For 1 oz. loads, I prefer the Down Range XL-1 for use in AA, STS and Gun Club hulls. I use that wad for practice loads and for the first shot of Doubles in competition. My cost on them was $7.50/bag of 500. I bought 20,000 so I got a good deal on them. I believe they are running about $12.00 a bag now. Think about that if we get together later in the year.

If you get serous about loading target shells for your kids or even for yourself, one of the best and least expensive powders is Promo. It is the equivalent of Red Dot (uses Red Dot data) and is also made by Alliant. The burn rate is adjusted to be equal to Red Dot for the same weight but it has a different density than Red Dot and also varies from lot to lot...so for shotgun use, where loads are dropped volumetrically, it is necessary to test what bushing is needed to drop the correct charge weight. Promo (Red Dot) is good for many pistol loads and cast rifle loads but cannot be used in 20 ga. My last 8 lb jug was under $80 but it has gone up in price. I typically have 40-75 lbs on hand because it is so versatile.

PM if you ever have any questions. I do not load buckshot or slugs but there are others here with a wealth of experience. You cannot develop loads for shotguns like we do for pistols and rifles. DO NOT LISTEN to those who tell you otherwise. We are working with much lower pressures and much thinner barrels/chambers so you will not see flattened primers. Some suggest measuring the metal portion of the hull to see if the pressure is too high but I am not one of them. If the load is not published, do not use it. There is load data on this site that has not been pressure tested. Be wary.

If you ever get a crimp that is bulging, DO NOT fire that shell. It may be an over charge of powder and/or shot. (one reason crimp consistency is an important indicator of your loads) If you are using excessive force to form a crimp something is wrong. More powder and/or more shot will affect crimp and chamber pressure...and there is little safety factor.

[toallmy]

Your hand forming the crimp , does this mean pre crimping or a starting crimp by hand , and then use the lee loader tool to finish the crimp ?

[RogerDat]

Your hand forming the crimp , does this mean pre crimping or a starting crimp by hand , and then use the lee loader tool to finish the crimp ?

Yes I have one of those cup shaped Lee Crimp Starters. These are hulls are all pre-fired so well established crimp that I am just pushing back together (sort of toward a point) then Lee hand push tool to set the crimp.

I have been setting the wad pressure on a bathroom scale, thinking maybe I need to do the same for the crimp.

Looking through the Lyman manual and the online powder manufacturers load data I noticed relatively large differences in pressure for changes in primer or wad, and I also noted unlike metallic load data the powder amounts were a specific amount. As in 15 grains of powder X with wad Y and primer Z and there might be an entry for 16 grains and a different wad or primer but not generally stuff listing 15 to 16 grains range for a given wad and primer. Metallic always a range and primer is given but different brand of that same type of primer is not generally a huge issue as far as safety of load. Any SPP from Federal, CCI, Winchester, etc. is expected to be pretty close to same results in terms of pressure or velocity.

I like published official load data I do not object to taking someone else's load data as being a good recipe as long as it fits in published data. My own inclination is to load light but sometimes a given combination of powder or components just needs to be at the high end to be effective. I assume from what Don has said about POI vs POA being adjusted indicates I have some stuff to learn.

Gee Whiz - I thought I was all Billy-B-Bad because I had a total stash that was approaching 70# and a whole 10# of Unique and here I find out some folks figure 40% more than my stash in a single powder is "normal" inventory. Now I know why I won't be loading shotgun in quantity. Dear wife already has a hard time with me "needing" a pound of different powder to try. After all I have plenty why not use on of those? I'm saving my next pleading puppy dog eyes look for an 8# jug of varget... On the other hand until the mosquitoes get worse the garage is still not too bad.

[toallmy]

It's a pretty good chance that you are buckling your wads , and or the top shoulders of the hull when pressing in the wad , and again when crimping . Go by the book definitely a minor change can make a safe load unsafe , use the primer that is recommended , and check your powder and shot charge with a scale , I'm shore you have . You are in good shape with Unique and Green dot . Just make a few and go out back to blast some pop cans .

[toallmy]

Warning never ever go to Ballistic Products , or Precision reloading websites . They will show you everything you will ever need and it will get expensive . Remember I told you .

[RogerDat]

Warning never ever go to Ballistic Products , or Precision reloading websites . They will show you everything you will ever need and it will get expensive . Remember I told you .

Darn does that mean I have to remove them from my bookmarks?

[Hardcast416taylor]

RogerDat. By your finding how much powder by weight some shooters think in normal, now you know why i bought powder in 8 lb. and larger 12 lb. kegs. I still have an empty 12 lb. metal keg from Herco and a Red Dot from my really shooting alot days!. Good luck in you endavor of shotshell loading.Robert

[dsh1106]

Very interesting, lots info here.

I'm just starting my journey as well, really looking forward to this new adventure.
Not planning on any major production, just tinkering so I know I can do it. I'll be using my old Lyman tools, AA turret and Easy loader.

Scott

[toallmy]

RogerDat how is your loading with the lee loader going ? Any updates .

[GrayTech]

RogerDat I have an older RCBS shot shell manual that gives a charge range for many pistol powders, like red dot and unique, for a given set of components. If you PM me with your available components I'll see what there is and send you the data I have.
PS - I'm having loads of fun with the linotype you sent me for Christmas and would love to have the opportunity to repay your kindness.

[RogerDat]

RogerDat I have an older RCBS shot shell manual that gives a charge range for many pistol powders, like red dot and unique, for a given set of components. If you PM me with your available components I'll see what there is and send you the data I have.
PS - I'm having loads of fun with the linotype you sent me for Christmas and would love to have the opportunity to repay your kindness.

Will do, just have to get some breathing room in my todo list. Appreciate the offer, glad your enjoying the lino.