Help with price range for 1917 Enfield, Winchester, all # match

[lar45]

Hello Everybody. I'm cleaning out the closet and thinking about taking some old stuff to a gun show to recycle into some new toys.
I've got a Winchester made 1917 Enfield that I'm trying to figure out what it's worth. All of the SN match, the wood and metal are in pretty good shape.
I'm wondering if this was part of the Brithish Wartime Reserve. It has a red band painted on the wood next to the muzzle, which from what I've read is how they distinguished between the 30-06(Red Band) and the 303 rifles.
One bad point here is that it looks like someone whittled down the top of the forend. Maybe to blend in with where it meets the metal?
I've got the Catalog of firearms, but can't seem to find it listed.
I did see one spot where it said to check the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms.
Does anyone have a copy of that and could look this gun up?
Or an idea of what it's worth?
Thanks much.

[Rich/WIS]

Might try the CMP Forum, folks there are familiar with these and can give you a good idea of value.

[Traffer]

If you are on facebook there are a couple of pages on P14's/M1917's. People there are very knowledgeable and up to date with values.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1492029097773652/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/m191...ctors/?fref=nf

[Hardcast416taylor]

Being a Winchester made `17 definately adds to the value. Replacement wood is fairly easy to still come by.Robert

[Jack Stanley]

Around here an Eddystone is priced about six hundred bucks , the Remington a little more and the Winchester more still . I'd think matching number would help you .

Jack

[lefty o]

serial number under the bolt handle, and looks to have a roll pin front sight, which tells me it started out as a LL to canada, and then made its way to denmark.

[funnyjim014]

Was just at a live gun auction that had 7 p17s. Eddy stones and remingtons. All went for 500 to 600 bucks.

[molldog06]

serial number under the bolt handle, and looks to have a roll pin front sight, which tells me it started out as a LL to canada, and then made its way to denmark.

The red band painted on the stock is also a clue that it was loaned to the British at some point. From what I have read the 1917's that we lent to the British had thick red bands painted on the stock to identify the rifle as being chambered in 30-06 and not a 303 like the majority of the British Enfields.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is true about the red band being British - or possibly Canadian, though I haven't heard that. The trouble is, in those I have seen it went around the forend, and here it looks like it is only on the handguard, which therefore might be a replacement. I don't know if the handguard was stamped with the serial too, but you should look for traces of the paint in the pores of the forend.

Originality is now well worth preserving on an unaltered M1917, so I wouldn't think of replacing the handguard unless I thought it was a replacement. You can get an original one from S&S Firearms. If it belonged with the rifle, and especially if it is serial numbered, you could replace that last little bit of wood along a line where the junction with the red paint would make the join line inconspicuous.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/search.asp

The majority of British red-banded Enfields went to the Home Guard, and at least 615,000 and perhaps all of them weren't lent but purchased, probably at a very neighbourly price, as there was no Lend-lease until 1941. It is a shame that TV comedy has branded them forever as a band of bungling geriatrics. They eventually manned anti-aircraft guns and coastal batteries, and lost about 1200 dead in the war. They included young men barred from enlistment due to essential occupations, and thanks to events earlier in the century, there were a lot of old men like you don't want hunting you. I don't think they ever got to fire a rifle at a German, although I know of one British fighter pilot getting shot in the buttock during his parachute descent.

[salpal48]

I have seen Them High @ shows 600.00+. collector are Now very smart @ the shows in The East. Plenty Of Guns to Go around. If you want to sell Be prepared to Bargain or take it Home. Just remember It is easer to Cary Money around Than iron

[lefty o]

yes, the brits put red paint bands on them, but this gun didnt go to england, it is clear by the markings and the front sight it went to denmark via canada. the canadian/denmark guns all had red band of paint on them with 30-06 stenciled in black. many many years ago 5000 of these rifles came back into the US, they have a special collectors niche above and beyond other 1917's.

[lar45]

Excellent information, thank you guys very much.
I'm working on getting the cosmoline cleaned out. I'll see if there are any serial numbers on the forend wood.

[Battis]

I have an all matching Winchester in great shape that I recently bought for $590.
As far as the red paint on the handguard - I just got a P14 Enfield "Fat Boy" stock that has red and white painted stripes near the magazine well, and "BF" painted on the stock. There's also a "DP" stamp on the stock. From what I've learned, the "DP" and the red/white stripes signify "Drill Purpose" only, and the "BF" might mean "Blank Fire". The receiver and barrel of my M1917 .30-06 just about fit into this stock - the magazine well would have to be opened more. There were no handguards with the stock. Did the red paint always signify the .30-06 caliber on the M1917?

[lefty o]

red painted band with 30-06 stenciled on at the front of the handguards signified the gun was a 30-06 so they did not confuse it with .303, the red and white bands on the buttstock was the brits way of saying a gun was only safe for drill purposes.

[duckey]

The Remington 1917 looks just about identical to that Winchester. My pops as one with a parkerized finish.

[10-x]

Lefty is very correct, listen to his advice. Have collected and have reference books on most US military weapons. Would remove action& barrel from wood and clean all the metal carefully. Light coat of your favorite lube, wipe the stock down, print the history posted here and head to a show. Good luck.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The red band near the muzzle usually meant .30-06, though I can't be certain nobody else used it for something completely different. I think the red and white bands further back would go with the Drill Purpose mark, although they weren't always used.

DP designation could have been used for rifles beyond accurate or safe use with live ammunition, but wasn't always. It also reflected how much use they had for a particular model of rifle. I have seen it on about as good a long Lee-Enfield as you could wish to see, which was both safe and accurate with any conventional .303 load. In the British service the American-made P14 production was slow in getting under way, and by that time Lee-Enfield production had both caught up and been found better for use in the conditions of trench warfare. Most of the P14s were used in the Empire and for home service etc., with a few used as sniping rifles. I think they would very easily have found their way into DP status, in the years when nobody was ever going to be stupid enough to start another world war.

[Ken in Iowa]

Just a little nomenclature update.

that is a US Model 1917 , not a P17 and not an Enfield.

however the earlier 303 British rifles were called the Pattern 14 or P 14 for short.

[Ken in Iowa]

Culver's shooting page has an excellent forum on the Model 1917.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-M1917

[guicksylver]

Very interesting piece..for now I would'nt do anything to it..

Why....for one thing an correct original Winchester with the original BLUING not Parkerizing can fetch up to $2,500.00..yup $2,500.00

The Red Ring does in fact indicate "lend Lease"

The ring doesn't just appear at the tip of the stock it can also be found just at the lower band ( on o3's anyways)

The Brits didn't trust us so they "re-proofed" guns and stamped them themselves..17's ,03's.03a3's don't have "matching numbers"..they have matching manufacture letters..i.e R (Remington),E (Eddystone,W (Winchester) on the various parts..

Two guesses... unless you know exactly where this came from..it could be a lend lease that the Brits stamped the numbers on...or more likely a Greek return..they definitely put numbers on everything and would have swapped parts...or a combo..

Speaking of that are there any proof and inspectors stamps on the stock?