What's Needed in the Milsurp World?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

When I started my Mosin business in 2011, it led to the exploration of the mechanical quirks of the Mosin-Nagant.

I know I've helped a lot of folks and hope I've helped a lot I don't know about.

The mystery behind the Mosin is largely gone now, six years later. I've made kits which allow the correct operation of the Mosin, helping to fit it so it works as intended. My experimental archeological approach seems to work well with old firearms.

Additionally, I've kept most of my products and procedures easily reversible out of deference for the collectors.

It's time to move forward. I'll never stop doing the Mosin work. I just really like that design. I'd like another puzzle, though.

I love the 1911 Government platform. I build my own, and have considered doing something 1911 related. However, that market is pretty full.

Is there a milsurp rifle out there that's neglected like the Mosin was? I think that the Mauser, for example, has plenty out there for it, and the operation and quirks see well understood.

I really enjoy working on traditional black powder firearms, tuning them and such, but I don't know how much demand there is in that field, especially with the advent of inlines.

So, what's needed out there for which platform(s)?

Regards,

Josh

[Petrol & Powder]

The firearm's industry is in a downturn (thanks to the defeat of Hillary) and I would be reluctant to venture into that business territory.

The Mosin was a bit neglected over the years and was placed in the lime light by the firearms shortage AND the importation of huge numbers of Mosin-Nagants. I agree that the Mauser platforms have decades of support and there's likely little room in that arena.

Once you get away from bolt action military surplus from the early 1900's , there's not a lot out there.

The FN49 was a great weapon but they didn't make a lot and they tend to be expensive. The FAL has some appeal but the starting prices (these days) put it in a different market.


Decent M1 Garands have dried up and the M14's are NFA weapons and therefore out. M1A's aren't surplus guns.


The Lee Enfield carries on in the surplus world but it's nearly impossible to find one priced correctly for what it is (an advantage that the Mosin-Nagant held for a long time).


I do see a fair amount of Walther P-1's on the market. The post war P-1's don't command the prices of the wartime P-38's so there may be a market for improving those pistols.


I also think that gun safes, particularly smaller ones, will continue to sell. A lot of people purchased firearms during the panic and will want to keep those guns. An inexpensive but good safe would appeal to those new gun owners that now have some extra cash.

Just rambling, take it for what it's worth....

[leebuilder]

Tuff call. Seen many gizmos and "must haves" come and go. Thing is price, availablty and usefullness are never together at the right time. I love mosins, one tough rifle with lots of history, packs plenty of punch and ammo is cheap.
Been hanging around the range for 30 years or so. Seen many come and go very few stay, and the die hards are like me simple and are happy with a warm dirty barrel and time with like minded peaple.
I dont know of any one idea or product that will every one will want.
I see alot of replacment stocks for mosins and sks. Scope mounts are always in demand, they range from effective to useless.
I am rambleing again. Hope this bit of insight helps.
You helped me, thanks.
best of luck!!!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sir, I apologize that I'm not familiar with you or your enterprise, but you are looking for milsurp products to manufacture? I have several for you to consider, none of which would make you wealthy by themselves, but which would certainly be small but steady sellers, and taken as a whole, who knows?

1. The German Gew 88 rifle was massively imported years ago, and although the overseas sources appear exhausted many are actually in use as hunting rifles and reposing in collections. One feature of the rifle's design is a separate bolt head bearing the locking lugs, separate from the bolt body, unlike the Mauser which has a one piece bolt body that includes the locking lugs. The entire bolt head can be lost, and without it the rifle is useless. In fact, as an aside, Germany always "enjoyed" strict gun control, but when the government desired to reward someone with possession of a rifle, pre-WW II they would give them a Gew 88 without the bolt head. Anyway, not only does the bolt head have the locking lugs, but it has the extractor and ejector as well. Both small parts, especially the ejector which is smaller than a green pea, and which part came in two different designs. The extractor can be replicated by modifying that of a Portugal Vergueiro, which strangely seem to be obtainable, but it requires some know how and serious file work. No straight up replacements are available, and the ejectors are not obtainable at all except by cannibalization of existing rifles. There is a fellow in Los Angeles who either caused to have made, or was party to the manufacture of a CNC run of new bolt heads. I acquired one and put it in my parts drawers for future reference, and a close inspection leads me to believe that the product was very good. I might be able to put you in touch with him if it is necessary. But that run seems to be exhausted. So there are three parts you could make, the bolt head, the extractor, and the ejector. To convince yourself of the need for these parts you have only to do an e-bay search daily (as do I) to see that there is a brisk trade in them when they are available and that the prices are all out of proportion to what they should be. Sellers specify if the bolt they are selling has these parts or not, and if new to the Gew 88 you would be well advised to ask before buying. That advice also applies to collectors/shooters buying a Gew 88 from such sources as Gunbroker. About 5 years ago I purchased two complete rifles from different sellers and both were missing the ejectors.

2. Next would be parts for the US Krag rifle. Again, do a search on e-bay, and you will find that an item(s) in high demand are the screws to attach the several different models of rear sights to the barrel. Not all of these different rear sights use the same screws, although they all have the same thread, which is a real odd ball. The screws are usually sold in pairs, again because there is a brisk business in cannibalizing existing rifles to supply the demand for parts, and I've seen them go for anywhere from $10 for both screws to $25 for one screw. Often, having been screwed off and on several times (being well over 100 years old) the heads are buggered up and unattractive. Also, something easily lost during disassembly or just working loose over time. A while back I was plagued by the on-going rusting of the grip screws on a Star Mod. B pistol I carry, and found a fellow selling on e-bay who apparently has metric threaded stainless steel replacement screws made in and imported from Europe. Perfect fit, and solved the rusting problem. But nothing new is available for the Krag sights.

3. Then, there once was a number of sight makers that provided "no gunsmithing" receiver peep sights for rifles like the Krag. No one makes them any more, and the price for used ones in good condition often exceeds $100. I have to admire the design engineering that goes into such no gunsmithing products like ATI and B-Square scope bases, etc., and believe that the field is wide open for design and manufacture of an entire line of no gunsmithing receiver sights not only for the old military rifles, but for many modern sporters as well. I think that the popularity of scopes did a lot to harm the iron sight industry, but do believe that the market will never entirely go away and that a niche can be found there for a good product line. The original replacement receiver sights by companies like Lyman, Pacific, and Redfield were finely made and somewhat complicated, but a redesigned line could be simplified. Again, we are talking "no gunsmithing" sights which make use of existing screw holes and shapes and projections on the receiver for attachment, not like the Williams line that requires drilling and tapping. The latter type is fine for a gunsmith, but sometimes discouraging for the ordinary shooter.

There are a few ideas. There are no doubt many more.

[nagantguy]

I for one applaud your work to make useful affordable parts for my beloved old Russian war horses! And shining the light on them they deserve for their utility and robust construction! I'm in need of a donner action to thread a heavy barrel to, I don't have one left that I want to Frankengun, as mentioned above bolt mounted peeps would be a nice idea! Remember the days of 49 dollar mosin rifles? O had I only known what they'd be worth now!

[Kegcaissy]

No3 and no4 boltheads for no4 enfields!

[Adam Helmer]

Josh Smith,

I apologize since as a very serious military surplus arms collector, I have not yet learned of your input for the Mosin. Please enlighten me; what have you accomplished?

Adam

[Josh Smith]

Hello gents,

I have a Gewehr 88 and have thought about purchasing machinery to make duplicate bolt heads.

I did not know there was a shortage of longer bolt heads since I do not own an Enfield. I may have to rectify that oversight.

While I prefer to work with my hands, I can run lathes and mills. I'll research the investment required.

Regards,

Josh

[Josh Smith]

Josh Smith,

I apologize since as a very serious military surplus arms collector, I have not yet learned of your input for the Mosin. Please enlighten me; what have you accomplished?

Adam

Adam,

If you go to http://smith-sights.com , you'll find a series of articles, products and videos.

I started by making an adjustable front target sight for a new-to-me 91/30. As you know, most Mosin models were sighted in with bayonets affixed and tend to impact their rounds high without the bayonets attached.

Unfortunately, some ranges do not allow bayonets, and those who hunt with Mosins find them impractical. Therefore, a solution was needed. Enlarging the post with wire insulation didn't appeal to me, and I therefore modified the front sight to be adjustable. I showed it to folks, they wanted them, and Smith-Sights LLC was born in 2012.

Researching old accurizing methods, I accurized mine and wrote a couple articles about it. Following the second article, I was asked to make kits so that it would be easier to do, and so I began making an Accuracy Shim Kit.

Additional sight types followed the first, and other products followed the shim kit. Most follow traditional Finnish methods to improve standard Russian rifles, and all are reversible. Even the stainless bedding pillars may be installed in new stocks should you wish to keep your original stock in unmodified condition.

Regards,

Josh

[Outpost75]

Replacement pistol grip 03A4 type stocks for Springfield.

Van Orden style Marksman stock for Springfield, Winchester Model 54 and pre-64 Model 70.

Drop in magazine filler block, follower and spring to convert 03A3 Springfield to feed 7.62 NATO.

Replacement military contour barrel for 03A3 for 7.62 NATO.

[HABCAN]

There is already on the market a scout scope base for the M1A, (goto http://www.m14.ca/) but exhorbitantly priced. A similar and reasonably-priced one for the Lee-Enfield(s) would be useful.

[tdoyka]

2. Next would be parts for the US Krag rifle. Again, do a search on e-bay, and you will find that an item(s) in high demand are the screws to attach the several different models of rear sights to the barrel. Not all of these different rear sights use the same screws, although they all have the same thread, which is a real odd ball. The screws are usually sold in pairs, again because there is a brisk business in cannibalizing existing rifles to supply the demand for parts, and I've seen them go for anywhere from $10 for both screws to $25 for one screw. Often, having been screwed off and on several times (being well over 100 years old) the heads are buggered up and unattractive. Also, something easily lost during disassembly or just working loose over time. A while back I was plagued by the on-going rusting of the grip screws on a Star Mod. B pistol I carry, and found a fellow selling on e-bay who apparently has metric threaded stainless steel replacement screws made in and imported from Europe. Perfect fit, and solved the rusting problem. But nothing new is available for the Krag sights.

3. Then, there once was a number of sight makers that provided "no gunsmithing" receiver peep sights for rifles like the Krag. No one makes them any more, and the price for used ones in good condition often exceeds $100. I have to admire the design engineering that goes into such no gunsmithing products like ATI and B-Square scope bases, etc., and believe that the field is wide open for design and manufacture of an entire line of no gunsmithing receiver sights not only for the old military rifles, but for many modern sporters as well. I think that the popularity of scopes did a lot to harm the iron sight industry, but do believe that the market will never entirely go away and that a niche can be found there for a good product line. The original replacement receiver sights by companies like Lyman, Pacific, and Redfield were finely made and somewhat complicated, but a redesigned line could be simplified. Again, we are talking "no gunsmithing" sights which make use of existing screw holes and shapes and projections on the receiver for attachment, not like the Williams line that requires drilling and tapping. The latter type is fine for a gunsmith, but sometimes discouraging for the ordinary shooter.

this is a good start!!!!

[Dschuttig]

Steyr M.95 Rifles!! Plenty of them around, they're still cheap, most are in somewhat nice condition, brass is available as well as bullets and dies. They're fast, and graceful looking!

[Fishman]

Steyr M.95 Rifles!! Plenty of them around, they're still cheap, most are in somewhat nice condition, brass is available as well as bullets and dies. They're fast, and graceful looking!

That was the one that came to mind too. They are begging for better sights and if the owner doesn't use a clip to load it, the extractor can break and they aren't available as a part to my knowledge. A cool little carbine.

[leebuilder]

Was thinking last night
a proper funnel that will fit in the chambers of mosins and sks, make it easier to clean out after shooting corrosive ammo.
I would buy two and my buddies would all want/need one.
Be safe

[LAGS]

Rather than a Funnel,
How bout something like a Syringe that has a tip to fit the chamber.
That would give some force behind the Hot water or what ever you flush the bore with.
And not slop it all over the stock and exterior of the rifle.

[funnyjim014]

FIND A BETTER CHAMBER ADAPTER SYSTEM TO CONVERT VZ-52 TO 7.62X39.The current adapter is held in with lock tight and is prone to sticking to a shell and getting ejected. OR make 7.62x45 ammo as no one else does

[LAGS]

Can you solder the adapter into the chamber ?
It should still be removable if you do ever find the ammo that you want

[psweigle]

How about Spanish destroyer parts?

[Josh Smith]

Hi Gents,

These are all excellent ideas.

I'd like to cover something that has not received a lot of attention. The Steyr m95 might just be the best candidate.

Stock parts for milsurps is tempting, but my thing really is making the most of firearms, overcoming quirks, etc.

One thing about the Mosin-Nagant is that most we see here are refurbished. During this process, good used parts and new parts were combined in bins and rifles were reassembled using these parts.

Problem was, they were not hand-fitted. A host of problems ensued and the Mosin got a terrible reputation here.

My work has centered around helping owners, who are not necessarily gunsmiths, make their Mosins run correctly as per the original design, not Soviet rebuild specs.

A correctly fitted Mosin should run about as nicely as a Gewehr 88/05, have the precision of a Springfield '03, and be as precise as tough as an Arisaka.

Regards,

Josh