35 whelen and 1:12 twist

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I am going to get a 35 whelen this summer, a rem. 700. there are two guns I am looking at, my favorite ( at least for looks and having iron sight from the factory.) is their bdl, but I would have to get a 30'06 and send it to JES to bore it to 35 whelen. which I have no problem with, I trust him. the other is the cdl and is already cvhambered in 35 whelen, but I would have to have the sights installed (135$) and the thing is it is a 1:12 twist barrel and I was wondering is that's too fast for 250-280 gr boolits (max 300... maybe). JES charges 225 to bore the barrel out so it would be close in price either way. so my main question is will cast boolits perform ok with that fast of a twist?. Thanks,Travis

[Outpost75]

A 12" twist is the standard twist for the.358 Winchester. It is not "too fast" for 280-300 grain bullets, and in fact will stabilize them at subsonic velocities below 1000 fps if you want to have a low recoil load with ASTOUNDING penetration. It would also perform well with the lighter 200-250 grain bullets, but would be at its best with those 270+

You might imagine what a bullet like this one would do when well stabilized at about 1000 fps with 9-10 grains of Bullseye in the .35 Whelen, mild, quiet and would shoot through a moose lengthwise!

Attachment 192170

[Larry Gibson]

The 12" twist with those long bore riding nosed cast bullets will limit accuracy to 2200 fps, maybe 2300 fps. If you get the rebore I'd suggest you have JES give it a 14" twist with a .348 bore giving .005 deep grooves for a .358 groove diameter. If you're going to push those heavy cast bullets (they have lots of inertia) the deeper grooves will hang onto them better and give better accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Oklahoma Rebel]

yeah, that's what I was going to do if I go that route, any suggestion on 3 or 4 groove? and yeah, I would like to be able to shoot a 250gr at 2400 or so, is that to much to ask?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

thanks a lot!

[Yodogsandman]

I always thought that Remington factory barrels were 1-16 twist. Does the CDL have a custom maker barrel?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

not sure, but I really do not think so, theres no other name attached to it, like a lipsey's ruger or whatever, you can find them on gunbroker, just look up remingto 700cdl, the bdl is the on I would get re bored if you want to see it to, I think you'll agree it is a better looking gun. also any thoughts on wether 3 or 4 line rifling is better for cast?

[Shuz]

I have a Rem 700 CDL in .35 Whelen, and it has a 1:16 twist. It will NOT stabilize a Lyman 358009, which is a nominal 280g boolit. I have a custom 700 in .35 Whelen that has a 1:12 twist, and it stabilizes the 358009 very nicely and I achieve 2150 fps with a heat treated boolit. This 1:12 twist is the .35 Whelen I have successfully used for big game like moose and elk.

[runfiverun]

my 12 twist 358 win. is the most boring cast rifle ever.
jacketed data, a boolit mold I got from our S&S, go shoot 1" groups, try higher powder amount, better,,, done.
it took longer to put the 3x9 scope on the thing.

[5Shot]

The 12" twist with those long bore riding nosed cast bullets will limit accuracy to 2200 fps, maybe 2300 fps. If you get the rebore I'd suggest you have JES give it a 14" twist with a .348 bore giving .005 deep grooves for a .358 groove diameter. If you're going to push those heavy cast bullets (they have lots of inertia) the deeper grooves will hang onto them better and give better accuracy.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

If the 1:12 is limited to 2300fps, what do you gain with the 1:14? My 1:12 shoots very accurate, but I have yet to chrono the loads (max charge of WC852f and a 310 NOE Thumper). My current project will have a 1:14 PacNor.

[5Shot]

A 12" twist is the standard twist for the.358 Winchester. It is not "too fast" for 280-300 grain bullets, and in fact will stabilize them at subsonic velocities below 1000 fps if you want to have a low recoil load with ASTOUNDING penetration. It would also perform well with the lighter 200-250 grain bullets, but would be at its best with those 270+

You might imagine what a bullet like this one would do when well stabilized at about 1000 fps with 9-10 grains of Bullseye in the .35 Whelen, mild, quiet and would shoot through a moose lengthwise!

Attachment 192170

Have you tried this bullet with your load of Bullseye? I have the NOE Thumper, and I think I might give it a try. I don't think that 36-302D would feed out of the magazine in my gun (tried many different nose profiles, and the Thumper was the first one to feed without the nose hanging up on the back of the chamber).

[Outpost75]

Years ago with a very similar Hoch bullet in a .35 Whelen I no longer own.

These days I use 9 grains of Bullseye in the .35/.30-30 with Accurate 36-245D with excellent results in a 16" twist.

Attachment 192184

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

If the 1:12 is limited to 2300fps, what do you gain with the 1:14? My 1:12 shoots very accurate, but I have yet to chrono the loads (max charge of WC852f and a 310 NOE Thumper). My current project will have a 1:14 PacNor.

You gain another 200 - 300 fps up to 2500+ fps capability. This is because you are controlling the RPM which is very important when shooting cast at HV. Especially if the bullet has a long bore riding nose with minimal bearing surface. Getting up to 2500 fps gets the OP into the true potential range of the 35 Whelen cartridge. If staying down at 2000 - 2300 fps is all it will do accurately then might as well make it a 35 Remington or 358W. The OP is building a 35 Whelen so he might as well be able to use it, just my way of thinking is all.

Larry Gibson

[Oklahoma Rebel]

for the 2200-2400 range with a 250ish grain boolit, what powder do yall use? I have heard 4350 is good

[Outpost75]

for the 2200-2400 range with a 250ish grain boolit, what powder do yall use? I have heard 4350 is good

4350, 4064, RL15, Varget all good.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

cool, thanks, guys, for all the tips! if you have any more or think of something I might need to know, I would appreciate it. thanks again!!! Travis

[richhodg66]

You gain another 200 - 300 fps up to 2500+ fps capability. This is because you are controlling the RPM which is very important when shooting cast at HV. Especially if the bullet has a long bore riding nose with minimal bearing surface. Getting up to 2500 fps gets the OP into the true potential range of the 35 Whelen cartridge. If staying down at 2000 - 2300 fps is all it will do accurately then might as well make it a 35 Remington or 358W. The OP is building a 35 Whelen so he might as well be able to use it, just my way of thinking is all.

Larry Gibson

I'm about to pull the trigger on a rebore of a commercial Mauser to .35 Whelen and want it to shoot the Lyman 358009, nominally 283 grains. I also have the 358318, nominally 245 grains, the Lyman 358315 and NOE clone of the RCBS 200 grain FP. Would a 1 in 14 work with these? I kind of doubt I'd want to try to push that 358009 to 2500 FPS. Would the 1 in 12 be a better all around choice?

[runfiverun]

reloader-19 gets me over 2300 without even trying.

[5Shot]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a rebore of a commercial Mauser to .35 Whelen and want it to shoot the Lyman 358009, nominally 283 grains. I also have the 358318, nominally 245 grains, the Lyman 358315 and NOE clone of the RCBS 200 grain FP. Would a 1 in 14 work with these? I kind of doubt I'd want to try to push that 358009 to 2500 FPS. Would the 1 in 12 be a better all around choice?

1:14 is probably all you need. It will stabilize a 310 grain Woodleigh, and easily stabilize a 300 cast.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

no, it would probably be an 1800fps round (the 280gr) when I was talking about hitting 2400-2500, I meant with the lighter boolits, 200-250grs. although the 358009 at 2500 sure would be a beast!