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Thread: Forming 33 winchester From 40/65 Starline brass.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Forming 33 winchester From 40/65 Starline brass.

    Has anyone done this . . By running a 40/65 Case Fl Into a 33 WCF Trim die, will This form Completely . Or do I still Have to Use 45/70
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    I have not done it, but I would think a .40-65 would be a great intermediate step from the .45-70; so if you already have .40-65's in hand, I see no reason not to start with them.

    A .38-56 step might also be necessary, I don't know for sure.

    Robert

  3. #3
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    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Anneal first.
    Try using a good reforming lube - I use STP and go thin on lube.
    Resize a little at a time in the seater die of your die set. DO NOT TRY TO DO IT IN ONE PASS

    Lower the case from the press and with lubed fingers, rewipe the case, and up into the die again.
    It may take a few cases until you get an idea of how much can be done in one pass.
    Finish with the FL die

    I do this for many different chamberings - it works - mostly. It comes down to you going slow and seeing what works.
    I just so happen to have an RCBS two die set for my 33 Win. You have to do about as I have outlined even with a good form die set.
    Chill Wills

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    well I do have a CH form and a RCBS file trim. I also Have a set of Dies. It just seem The measurement are a Bid under The Published Dim,s. as appose to 45 /70.. The only Thing I don't have is the rifle. . a friend of mine has the M 86 . I was doing Him a favor
    They look Ok but No way to test it
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  5. #5
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    I use an RCBS forming die set for taking 45-70s to 33 WCF. The first forming die results in something just like a 40-65.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I don't much like Starline 40-65 brass. It has an unsightly ring formed on it at the junction of the base and the case walls. Not everyone would care about the ring but I don't care for it. Starline told me they had to do this to their brass to make the base small enough that it does not hang up in 40-65 chambers.
    I have a Browning BPCR in this caliber and Browning's chamber is straight for about .250 so it does not need the ring.
    If the .33 Win you are forming brass for has a tight chamber you may want to use the .40-65 brass but I don't really like the looks of it.


    Most of the Starline cases have a surface texture that I call "worm trails" at the junction of the neck and body taper. This is probably caused by forming faster than the brass can flow. Most people would not notice or even care about these squiggles. Most of the squiggles blow out when fired. But you have to be very careful or the squiggles will turn into what look like lube dents when you are the one forming the cases, even with almost no lube. The brass just does not want to be compressed very fast at the junction of the neck and body. It took me using a number of intermediate forming dies to be able to form 40-65 without the "worm" tracks. I can provide the details of those dies if someone needs them in another post.

    In the first 20 Starline 40-65 cases that I bought for samples, there were a couple of cases that had significant mouth defects caused by forming the cases with dents in the case mouth or significantly out of round case mouths. I eventually bought enough additional cases to make a lot of 100. I found a few more cases with bad mouths. I also found one that was formed with a huge dent or out of round at the case mouth. This case had a fold about 1/16" deep and over an inch long. While I was disappointed with this I sent Starline a request for a few cases to make up for the 5 cases I lost. I offered to pay for the extras but the lady said there would be no charge. I was very pleased to receive 12 new cases that more than made up for my losses. The Starline cases as they say on the web site are 2.099. My rifle has a 2.125 long chamber so I prefer to make my cases from 45-70 Win or R-P brass.

    Now for the .33 Win dies

    I have a set of RCBS form dies, a set of RCBS FL reloading dies and a set of C-H FL reloading dies.
    I checked the die necks with .001 increment gauge pins. The neck diameters of the dies are as follows:

    1 Form 1 Die .404 RCBS
    2 Form 2 Die .370 RCBS
    3 Trim Die .363 RCBS
    4 FL Die .353 RCBS
    5 FL Die .353 C-H

    I listed this info because the 40-65 brass is a pain to form from 45-70 brass if you only use only the FL die.

    When using the RCBS .33 Win. form dies, the .33 Win cases are a breeze to form from 45-70 brass. There is no more drama than forming 7.65 Mauser from .30-06. I would say that there is no reason to use 40-65 brass since it might cause more problems than it solves.

    If you have 44-40 FL and 38-40 FL open top dies or trim dies you might try them for intermediate dies for forming the .33 Win.

    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Has anyone done this . . By running a 40/65 Case Fl Into a 33 WCF Trim die, will This form Completely . Or do I still Have to Use 45/70
    Last edited by EDG; 04-11-2017 at 02:03 AM.
    EDG

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Addendum to the previous post.

    40-65 brass when formed to .33 Win forms very easily because all you are forming is the neck and shoulder. The diameter at the shoulder is .015 smaller than a .45-70 case formed in .33 Win dies. That is because the body taper of the .40-65 is greater than the .33 Win. This under size will fire form on the first firing.

    I have 2 sets of .33 Win dies - RCBS and CH. The CH dies are .498 in diam at the head (big end inside diameter) The RCBS dies are . 505.

    RP and Starline brass is .498 dia at the head. WW brass is .502 at the head.

    I would check the big end of the chamber with a gauge pin to find out what diameter the brass has to be to fit.
    If the diameter is too small even your reloading dies may not work right if they are too large. All is not lost though you can always have a die made to squeeze the head down.
    EDG

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I recently made some from 40/65 loaded them and they fire formed well
    Thanks
    sal
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I edited my table in the post above because I omitted the DATA.
    EDG

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