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Thread: Snider accuracy

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Snider accuracy

    So I have another snider that I am working on that has a questionable bore. I have tried 75gr Ffg with questionable accuracy. Then dropped down to 70,65grs. I then grabbed a load from my carbine snider that shoots lights out and tried it. Well it was right on target. So back to the drawing board I go. The carbine load is a different , lighter bullet so I load up 8 at 75,70,65gr. 50-50range scrap/pb composition. I noticed after 3 shots with the 65gr i started to get fliers. So I cleaned after every shot and I had about 5 clean bore shots in 3"s at 50m. With the 70gr and 75gr clean bore groups they got worse to the point they where not on paper 75gr being the worse. My load is Ffg, Cow with Fffg to take up space, 1/8" grease cookie sandwiched in parchment paper below a cereal box wad. I'm about 5thou over sized with my mold. Iam wondering if the COW is creating too much fouling in the bore. The rifling is not totally shot but does seem shallow compared to my other snider. Should I try a 24gauge fibrewad? Would his keep things cleaner? Since this gun is sporterized I have installed a pin in front of the barrel band to keep it in place as it would slide off with recoil and I have bedded the tang area to stabilize the action. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    For a light carbine boolit, I can highly recommend the 420gn CCBB. They cast .592" and shoot well !



    http://www.castbulletengineering.com...fle/577-snider
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    My mold is a 440gr .598. I also used a 489gr .598. Mold. I have attach a pic of my 50m group with 65grFFg. The higher I went in powder there was significant deterioration in groups despite swabbing after shots
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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Looks like the fibre wads do not improve accuracy as I hoped just not any worse. 50m
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  5. #5
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    Mk2** 577 Snider Carbine (cutdown rifle) @ 50 yards. Five shots = 1.875". Load was .60" Lee RB cast of WW alloy over .125" lube wad, .060" cardwad and 24.0 grs of Unique. Velocity was 1475 fps.

    Yes, it was NOT BP, sorry . I've tried a multitude of BP loads with the .600" RB cast of soft lead AND WW type alloy and never attained such accuracy as this. One of these days I will turn myself a bullet mould for a .600" OD slug with a mild HB for somewhere around 450 grs to see what THAT will do with black powder

    .................Buckshot




    Last edited by Buckshot; 04-06-2017 at 01:10 AM.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Perhaps with my problem snider I should try a smokeless load. Since the accuracy buggers off after the first clean bore shot perhaps this would lead to at least a five shot string or so that has acceptable accuracy. Does anyone have any safe smokeless loads with a 440gr bullet? I don't have a 60cal ball mold or I would give that a shot.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mgvande View Post
    So I have another snider that I am working on that has a questionable bore. I have tried 75gr Ffg with questionable accuracy. Then dropped down to 70,65grs. I then grabbed a load from my carbine snider that shoots lights out and tried it. Well it was right on target. So back to the drawing board I go. The carbine load is a different , lighter bullet so I load up 8 at 75,70,65gr. 50-50range scrap/pb composition. I noticed after 3 shots with the 65gr i started to get fliers. So I cleaned after every shot and I had about 5 clean bore shots in 3"s at 50m. With the 70gr and 75gr clean bore groups they got worse to the point they where not on paper 75gr being the worse. My load is Ffg, Cow with Fffg to take up space, 1/8" grease cookie sandwiched in parchment paper below a cereal box wad. I'm about 5thou over sized with my mold. Iam wondering if the COW is creating too much fouling in the bore. The rifling is not totally shot but does seem shallow compared to my other snider. Should I try a 24gauge fibrewad? Would his keep things cleaner? Since this gun is sporterized I have installed a pin in front of the barrel band to keep it in place as it would slide off with recoil and I have bedded the tang area to stabilize the action. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    More information about the bullet would be useful. I think a hollow-based Minié is likely to work better with any Snider, and especially with the early ones, which were conversions and used the three-grooved barrel with 78in. twist of the muzzle-loading Enfield. With this even the conventional Minié was found inferior in accuracy to a hollow-pointed version with the nose spun shut. It had been developed by Mr. Metford as an explosive bullet for igniting powder caissons, and something of a dispute ensued when they refused to pay him, saying that his invention was a bullet containing explosive, and theirs didn't, so there.

    A solid based bullet would be unlikely to perform at all well with this barrel except, perhaps, if it was very short and light. Later purpose-made Snider barrels had a five-groove 48in. twist, and the chances should be better, but I would still expect the Minié to do best. I don't know if this corresponds to the MkI and MkII. The information I have is that the short rifle, cavalry and artillery carbines had the faster-twist barrel, but I am not sure this was invariably the case, and it is hard to be sure what a sporterised one was cut down from.

    With a hollow based bullet I would avoid any fibre or other wad behind it, and perhaps even cream of wheat. I think they would be liable to lodge irregularly in the base cavity.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master dnepr's Avatar
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    I am fairly new to the snider accuracy chase , mine is a cadet carbine with a 1in78 twist . My first rounds were a 58 cal lee real over 65 gr of black in a mag tech 24 gauge case . I mostly wanted to fire form the cases to the chamber . Once I figured out that they were hitting 2feet high I managed to get some on paper. Definitly all over the paper , 18 inch group at 25 yards as best as I can tell . But they were hitting nose first which is better than I expected . Next attempt will be with a lee .600 roundball .

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Scotland

    The bullet I use is stated above and in an image above. These bullets do work well in a cut down mk3 and in a JC Lord carbine. I think my problem is bore fouling with shallow rifling. My experience with the .577 minie was not good. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. The 440gr bullet shows most promise as it is shorter and this rifle is a slow twist.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnepr View Post
    I am fairly new to the snider accuracy chase , mine is a cadet carbine with a 1in78 twist . My first rounds were a 58 cal lee real over 65 gr of black in a mag tech 24 gauge case . I mostly wanted to fire form the cases to the chamber . Once I figured out that they were hitting 2feet high I managed to get some on paper. Definitly all over the paper , 18 inch group at 25 yards as best as I can tell . But they were hitting nose first which is better than I expected . Next attempt will be with a lee .600 roundball .

    Patch up up to .595 ish and try those bullets again.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master dnepr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgvande View Post
    Patch up up to .595 ish and try those bullets again.
    I will definitly try that , thanks

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Im starting to work with the Snider (Mark 2 I believe) now and have the lee 600 RB mold and the accurate mold for snider (1 large lube grove drops at .600). I have shot it once , from a test bench with RBs but yet to put it on paper. I hope to when the weather straightens up, we will see than.
    Last edited by Brett Ross; 04-29-2017 at 09:49 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
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    You guys have any comments as to perceived recoil? I've been shooting large bore BPCR for many years, and still shoot N-SSA competition with a variety of BP arms. I find the stock design of the Snider Enfield gives punishing felt recoil. You guys feel that way too? I just don't find it a pleasant gun to shoot. I'll take a Sharps, Peabody, or martini-Henry any day over the Snider.
    John Wells in PA

    Peabody's and Peabody-Martini's wanted
    Also shoot a 10-PDR Parrott Rifle in competition

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by John in PA View Post
    You guys have any comments as to perceived recoil? I've been shooting large bore BPCR for many years, and still shoot N-SSA competition with a variety of BP arms. I find the stock design of the Snider Enfield gives punishing felt recoil. You guys feel that way too? I just don't find it a pleasant gun to shoot. I'll take a Sharps, Peabody, or martini-Henry any day over the Snider.
    The cheek really takes a pounding

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by John in PA View Post
    You guys have any comments as to perceived recoil? I've been shooting large bore BPCR for many years, and still shoot N-SSA competition with a variety of BP arms. I find the stock design of the Snider Enfield gives punishing felt recoil. You guys feel that way too? I just don't find it a pleasant gun to shoot. I'll take a Sharps, Peabody, or martini-Henry any day over the Snider.
    The thing is--the Snider is just a re-used P53 rifle musket, which requires a different hold than most 'merican rifles, or you'll beat up your face and shoulder. Maybe it's just me--but I find I have to have the body in more of a forward facing stance, or at most a quarter to the right, rather than shoulders and body in line with the target as with a more traditional standing position. If I am sitting at the bench I have to do the same, try keep my shoulders more perpendicular to the target than I would normally do. I find I have to shoot my P53 3-band that same way to avoid getting whacked hard in the cheek.
    If you can, find an old British drill manual of the P53 period, or a more modern YouTube vid that illustrates the stance...
    Btw I only own one old Snider, but it is pretty accurate for what it is--I'm shooting an X-Ring 530 grain Pb flatbase bullet with about 70 grains of OE 1 1/2 Fg, and a bit of COW over the powder. I size the .593" bullet to .591" because of a snug chamber, and use reformed CBC 24 ga brass.
    Last edited by fgd135; 04-30-2017 at 05:39 PM.

  16. #16
    columrick
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    Finally sized some Magtech brass for my three band Snider. Bore slugged at .591. IIRC, I read somewhere that the bore diameter is larger aft the chamber, and tightens to the muzzle?

    Anyway, I've been browsing Accurate's site for molds, and I would like to get a recommendation on overall diameter, weight, and pattern for a boolit.

    I wasn't really intending to size the boolits that drop from the mold, but I suppose I could contact the member on this board to make up a sizing die for the Lee style sizer.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    Martyn Robinson of X ring services my be able to assist you. https://www.facebook.com/martyn.robinson.7165

  18. #18
    Boolit Man yulzari's Avatar
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    As Steppenwolf says. The email is xringservices@yahoo.com

    I use nothing but his cases and moulds for my Sniders. The 'Pukka' SWC for 100 metres and the heavier for longer ranges. 0.600" bullets fit the rear end of the barrel and new (again see xringservices) cases need fire forming to your chamber size. No need to size nor any need for a press.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub Trapdoor's Avatar
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    I just made my first loads using a .600 solid base bullet from an Accurate mold. I loaded 60 grains of FFFg by volume and placed a card on top of the powder. 20 grains of Cream of Wheat as a filler & a lubricated fiber wad under the bullet. Good groups offhand at 30 yards about 4” high. I will bench test it next. 3 band Nepal Model 1864 Snider


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  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Has anyone tried the 592 dia Lee REAL bullet in the Snyder? Looks like it should shoot in the newer quick twist ones.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check