Most don't shoot like I do. I start at 100 yards with revolvers. I do work loads at 50 but it ends there and can go to 500 meters. But when we go down I always put something at 100 for my revolvers. Can be an empty paint can, water bottle or beer can.
The full wad cutter has a long drive length over what the rifling can turn up. It is a muzzle against the paper thing. The range is feet, not yards. It needs more spin and velocity then my boolits.
Maybe, if you can hit the deer at 50. That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get. Don't tell me you get accuracy to 50 and more with a touch of fast powder. I know the .44.Originally Posted by jmort
I make mine shoot 1-5/16" at 200 yards.I did better at IHMSA with hits averaging 5/8" at 200 meters. Hornady bullets.
I learned boolits for all guns and the Semi wad cutter and wad cutter are so sad.
Yeah, they shoot great when you can reach out and touch the target.
Are you seriously suggesting that a full wadcutter is not accurate enough to make a lethal shot on a deer at 50yds?Maybe, if you can hit the deer at 50. That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get. Don't tell me you get accuracy to 50 and more with a touch of fast powder. I know the .44.
I make mine shoot 1-5/16" at 200 yards.
I learned boolits for all guns and the Semi wad cutter and wad cutter are so sad.
Yeah, they shoot great when you can reach out and touch the target.
Not at all, it depends on accuracy. You MUST hit first. Lethal and hit are different things.
Can a wad cutter be accurate? I suppose so but not the way they are commonly shot.
I will defy the mods by asking for groups shot. Darn, gets me in trouble, sorry.
Don't currently have a pic of groups shot...but I will try to get a couple.
But, they shoot well enough when placed in front of some Unique...that they certainly get the job done. I am sure they won't shoot like your bullets...but, I don't seem to have a problem killing game, with them.
Also, your original comment in this thread was about making the .44 mag a pop gun...by using a full wadcutter...NOTHING could be farther from the truth. And, that comment tells me that you have never shot any flesh and bones with wadcutter...otherwise, you would have not made the comment as you would know better. And, accuracy has little to do the the "pop gun" comment.
Again, with all due respect, I am sure that you can tell me a lot about .44 long range accuracy...what will work and what will not. I am sure that you can tell me what bullet works best for longer range handgun hunting. But, you can't tell me about how wadcutters perform on deer at typical handgun ranges...I have been there, done that and got the hat.
Last edited by shoot-n-lead; 03-29-2017 at 06:40 PM.
I don't commonly take pics of group shots either, but my Contender will put 10 out of 10 of those pop gun 44 wadcutters into the same hole at 50 yards. I never shot them at 100 but don't expect much of a difference except trajectory. Yeah I know, 44man can do that at 200 with his weak hand and blindfolded.
Na, that's his wife that shoots at 200 weak hand and blindfolded. He shoot at 500m using the weak hand blindfolded Annie Oakly style with mirrors.I don't commonly take pics of group shots either, but my Contender will put 10 out of 10 of those pop gun 44 wadcutters into the same hole at 50 yards. I never shot them at 100 but don't expect much of a difference except trajectory. Yeah I know, 44man can do that at 200 with his weak hand and blindfolded.
I have no idea why 44man keep parroting things like this " That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
My wc's:
162gr wc ='s .580" long
175gr wc ='s .590" long
200gr wc ='s .675" long
220gr hbwc/240gr wc ='s .750" long
44man's me got pen 310gr lee bullet ='s .950" long
44man keeps talking about having to spin them faster when in reality it's the bullets he uses that are longer and need to spin faster.
I go by drive length instead of boolit length. My 330 gr has a drive of .445". The Lee 310 is .500". I don't think any part of a boolit that does not touch rifling is important.
My 330 is .930" long and the Lee is .865". You can have a very long nose and weight that does not change twist needed. Weight comes in for loads since a heavy can't be shot faster then a lighter boolit. The Lee likes 21.5 gr of 296, fed 150 primer while mine needs 21 gr. It will not be the weight of the wad cutter but the length at the bore. So you have more drive length that depends on weight for the load. I figure the 330 gr at the max for the .44 with a 1 in 20" rate. So if your wad cutter has from .500" or less it will shoot.
As far as results on deer, the pressure wave from the full flat nose can kick your butt.
Then a wad cutter is seated deeper so the load needs reduced.
You will have a hard time convincing me a pinch of Unique is accurate.
Well, we all stand corrected. If we don't do things EXACTLY as 44man does, it won't be accurate and we won't be able to hit anything with it let alone kill a deer. I also just learned from him that Unique is not suitable for accurate loads in the 44. Learn something new every day, and because I learned it right here on the internet, it has to be true.
You are wrong with the Lee. The Lee 310 is .865" with a .500" drive. But all of your wad cutters are longer for drive length then the twist can support.
Strange nobody has groups to show. I have another with a boolit I designed. 50 yards working loads.Then 100 yards, same boolit.
Can you hit a shotgun shell at 100 with the wad cutter?
Three shots off hand at 100 with my boolit, .44 mag, 3/4".
More, cans shot at 100 and 200 yards.
Depends on the boolit. Unique and 231 are accurate but don't expect to shoot a heavy boolit.My boolit at 50 yards with Unique at around 1100 fps. This boolit MUST be in the 1300 fps range or is buckshot.
What you miss with a wad cutter is what happens at the cone. No guidance into the bore or cylinder clocking. Primary reason they don't shoot far. You wipe the edge off. Crooked start.
My boolit has a close to 11° ogive to match the cone as close as I could get it. It steers itself. What steers a semi wad cutter or wad cutter?
A wad cutter is great to cut paper or for pins. But pins fall better with a slow boolit. A high velocity boolit from a .44 will punch through without the pin falling. Best is the ACP.
There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun. It can't guide into rifling.
Why so hard to find a mold? maybe it doesn't work.
"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun"
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There is one man's opinion. I do not agree.
Last edited by jmort; 03-30-2017 at 05:48 PM.
A couple of points
1. I have no doubt that .44 Man has done what he said he has done with a revolver. Using stuff I learned from him and others I have shot a .44 mag revolver at 200 and 300 yards and did well enough to believe in his theory and practice. I did NOT get his results.
2. A person with one big bore revolver might want a variety of loads for that gun to cover various situations. I like shooting full bore .44 mag loads but there is the cumulative effect of recoil and for some folks the cost of lead and powder. Lots more shots with fast powder and a lighter boolit. Having different loads makes one gun more enjoyable and versatile. I had three load ranges for my .44 mags before I could afford .44 specials and more guns.
3. Ultimately it is your gun and you can shoot whatever you darn well please in it. As long as it is a safe load and you are having fun I am in your corner pulling for you.
Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.
I am opinionated for sure. Working the .44 since 1956 has made me that way. A glorious caliber that I can't make work what doesn't.
I ordered my flat top from Kliens Sporting Goods in Chi from Cle. $96 and the 29's were $140. I had dies, a mold and factory ammo for brass long before the gun came in the mail. Yep, in the mail. If you think you load hot, shoot some original factory stuff.
I was an Elmer fan and was shooting the .44 to over 500 yards back then. I didn't really learn the revolver until IHMSA. Then I made the guns shoot.
I would really like to see 50 and 100 yard groups with a wad cutter.
"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun. It can't guide into rifling."
I suppose this is why many, if not most, bullseye revolver shooters use 38 wadcutters? The above statement is totally asinine. 44man, you have helped me in the past with my 44 Blackhawk, and I want you to know that I really do appreciate that. I have the 310 Lee, and have used "your load" with excellent results. However, I'll continue to cast, shoot and enjoy my popgun 44 wadcutter loads, especially when I have the wife and grandkids in tow. I think that they might enjoy it more than I do.
Of course I want you to have success. Who am I to tell you? I have one goal, to promote cast and for you to have fun. I give what I found but you might do something else that works so I want to know.
The revolver was designed by an evil entity. It will screw with your mind. But it DOES work.
Light loads--OK, just not the wrong boolits. I love a 240, 245 or 250 with 7 gr of Unique or 231. Can shooting at it's best. Just need to match stuff up.
Last edited by 44man; 03-30-2017 at 09:11 PM.
In the winter months, our club goes indoors and does not allow magnum ammo. I use the Lyman 180, NOE 220, and a Rapine 240 depending on the flavor of the month.
Use less lead, powder and wear and tear on this body.
Leadmelter
MI
The .38 and .357 are a different ilk. I had many but none were as good as the S&W 27. Not even the K38. I shot the 358156 HP from the 27 and could hit 1" targets at 100 yards all day. 2400 powder.
My experience with wad cutters was the Cle police. I cleaned their guns. Hated it, lead inside and out, cylinder outsides and frames packed with lead.
Bullseye shooters are close range anyway. Just want a round hole to measure.
Now a Keith or Thompson can shoot if the cylinder has perfect alignment. With my larger calibers I was sent Keith style boolits and they are rocks thrown by hand.
Typically when I see statements like that it tells me someones keyboard is a pretty good shot.
I just love when someone puts 2 & 3 shot groups out there. I got an idear, why not put 10 or 20 shots together. That's called something that can be scored. That's very impressive pile of range trash you got there, why no 1" blocks all day long? The 44 not up to the task?? Perhaps if you practiced more with wadcutters you'd become a better shot. I'm extremely impressed with your lack of knowledge about a bullet you are supposed to shoot/use all the time. Tends to make everything else you type suspect. The lee 310gr bullet you keep referring to is a straight bodied bullet. Glad to see you keep parroting about drive bands on a straight sided bullet. That's right up there with a bullets nose length mean nothing. The reality of that 310gr lee bullet is it's .845" long, has a gc base that goes up ends. There's a small portion of the side of the bullet. Then there's a grease groove, then another small portion of the side of the bullet. (Most people that don't know what their looking at call them things drive bands) Then there's the lower crimp groove,another small portion of the side of the bullet & then a top crimp groove.Then above the top crimp groove is another portion of the side of the bullet. Anyone that knows what they're looking at can easily see the lee 310gr bullet doesn't have "drive bands".You are wrong with the Lee. The Lee 310 is .865" with a .500" drive. But all of your wad cutters are longer for drive length then the twist can support. Actually your wrong
Strange nobody has groups to show. I have another with a boolit I designed. 50 yards working loads.
http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c-430-310-rf.html
I size my lee 310gr bullet to.430. Those so called drive bands and the side of the bullet above the crimp grooves has a .625" long area of the body that is .430" in diameter/contact with the bore.
Odd 44man keeps claiming the 310gr lee bullet is gooder because of the bullet/bore contact being so short. But yet 3 of my wc's actually have less bore contact then the lee 310.
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| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
