On certain things it appears the CMP and NRA run somewhat parallel, (rifle/pistol competition rules for one thing) yet they are distinctly divided, and one hardly mentions the other officially. It feels like when you walk into a room after a fight and no one is talking (like IRL and Cart), but being you weren't there you have no idea what the issues were.
Did these similarities develop organically or was there some schism in the past?
government program.
private organization.
The CMP is a civilian program that was started after Clinton/Gore killed the DCM which was a department of the Army. The CMP does get most of its funding from firearm sales. Congress allowed firearms to be given to the CMP and the CMP to sell these to continue the program. Clinton/Gore opposed allowing these sales.
http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-n...tches-history/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civili...anship_Program
The Office of the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) was created by the U.S. Congress as part of the 1903 War Department Appropriations Act. The original purpose was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills so they would be skilled marksmen if later called on to serve in the U.S. military. Formation was precipitated by adoption of the M1903 Springfield rifle as the national service arm
The DCM was championed by Teddy Roosevelt after his experiences with poor marksmanship skills during the Spanish-American War.
http://bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/the...ip_program.pdf
The DCM rules governed the military matches and the NRA the civilian. After the DCM was defunded the CPM continued on with the military side of the matches.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-27-2017 at 01:17 AM.
I learned somethin'
Pro Patria-Ne Desit Virtus
It should also be pointed out that the NRA, while having sanctioned competitions and training programs, is heavily into gun rights advocacy, whereas CMP is primarily surplus sales to qualified individuals. NRA does not sell guns, and CMP won't show up at your city council meeting to fight an unjust gun law.
Given the level of Pistol/Rifle proficiency (lack of Proficiency?) by many in our society (Spray and Pray; Gangster Pistol - 90 degree hold rotation, etc..); perhaps we need the current resident of the White House advocate a return of the DCM and training of civilian populace on proper Firearm usage and Shooting Skills. Return of Theodore Roosevelt thinking in this area (not his Progressive and Federal Control side).
Mustang
"In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.
just need the next gen. Handgun to have the sights mounted on the side of the slide ! Don't know how they gonna do that on a revolver thoughOriginally Posted by MUSTANG
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
The NRA personal protection course is a joke--take the test in pencil so you can erase the incorrect answers to prove 100 percent proficiency: fail to get 1 shot on an 8 1\2 by 11 sheet of paper at 7 yards and still be considered proficient.
The NRA started as a promotor of rifle and pistol competitions. It has drifted toward a gun advocate as the times change. I think the NRA does more than given credit in preventing new gun legislation. In fact I would hate to see our gun laws if there was no NRA. The NRA has done more than any other organization in that area but is still heavily criticized. The NRA started around the 1870's with a former U.S. President as the NRA president. The NRA is made up of a paying membership
The DCM was a government program that supported competitions that centered around firearms that the military uses or used. They also sold surplus military firearms and ammunition to those who meet their requirements. The DCM was funded by the government. They also governed the "distinguished" shooter program where you competed with military and civilians for the coveted distinguished rifle or pistol badge.
The DCM was changed to a private organization under Clinton but still had access to surplus military firearms that could be sold to qualifying people. That is the CMP now. The CMP is funded by the sale of surplus rifles and other commercial products. They seek commercial products and sale them at sometimes attractive prices. Examples were Aguilar 22lr and commercial air rifles.
The CMP has made several changes within the last few years to attract new shooters. They have broadly expanded the pistols that can be used in the distinguished pistol competition. It use to be a 1911 or Beretta 9mm, now is is about 100 models of pistols. The CMP bought the rights to the leader of electronic scoring targets.
Though they were separate organizations they worked closely with one another for the common good of shooting. In the last year there are some ripples between the two organizations. The NRA rifle commitee voted to hold the NRA national rifle championship in Indiana instead of the holy grail of Camp Perry Ohio. It has been at Perry for several decades.
This change has had several affects by conflicting events and dates. This year the pistol competitions of the NRA and the CMP will have a one week intermission between them,where before they were held consecutively at Camp Perry.
I was told they hole the pistol side ways was because that was how it came in the box. so I guess a start would be to have pistols in stand up boxes ?
Having to take a test in a state to get a license is the big joke IMHO
I agree but that's unrelated. Now having to qualify to buy from the CMP is the joke IMO. Their matches are few and far between around here.
The NRA fights for all our gun rights. They used to promote rifle and pistol shooting when there were few shooting disciplines. Today there are several shooting disciplines, each wanting funding from the NRA.
The former DCM provided free and/or reduced ammo for state shooting associations. The CMP does not give anything to any assoc for free. The CMP has people on their staff getting high salaries, thus paying their bills by having shooters pay high fees for shooting their matches.
The DCM also provided the ammo for the "leg" matches. Part of the shooting was to determine POI and adjust your sights.
When I started shooting highpower in 1987 you went to the "leg" match and paid your two dollars. This covered the match fees and issued ammo. If you didn't have a rifle the DCM club would provide you with a DCM rifle. They also had "state" rifles to issue out long term. At that time you were only allowed one M1 Garand per lifetime. Price was $89.00 and the postman delivered it to your door.
For DCM/CMP leg matches sighters are not allowed. For Service Rifle the EIC Leg matches are normally 50 shots no sighters.
http://thecmp.org/competitions/service-rifle/
http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/Rulebook.pdf
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-27-2017 at 10:31 PM.
Been involved with NRA, DCM and CMP in the past, they all do (did) a good job.
Like everything else time changes, thoughts on what once were are no longer. Today the NRA and CMP do a service to those who choose to get involved with, whether protecting your Constitutional rights and sanction shooting events (NRA) or teach and advance rifle and pistol shooting (CMP).
I don't know if there is a schism between them. I think some people and groups have gravitated to one or the other due to the mission of each at this point in time.
Good post and comments...
Echo
USAF Ret
DPS, 2600
NRA Benefactor
O&U
One of the most endearing sights in the world is the vision of a naked good-looking woman leaving the bedroom to make breakfast. Bolivar Shagnasty (I believe that Lazarus Long also said it, but I can't find any record of it.)
You don't necessarily have to shoot in a CMP match to qualify for purchase. There are several different routes to get in their system:
Current or past military service.
Current or past law enforcement service
Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor).
Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
Concealed Carry License.
Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training. - FFL or C&R license.
Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. Complete the CMP Marksmanship Form to certify your range firing and the required marksmanship related activity for an individual to purchase from the CMP.
I did the last and it is pretty easy if you belong to a gun club to have your range officer fill out and sign the marksmanship form. You also need to be a member of an affiliated club. I belong to two gun clubs that are CMP affiliated. The Garand Collectors Association is also affiliated and you get a nice magazine on the M1 to boot. I believe the American Legion and the VFW may also qualify.
Check this website for the real details: http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sa...-requirements/
Don't trust an old dude like me to get the facts straight anymore....
I don't believe there is a problem either, at the National Matches in Port Clinton every summer the NRA has a pretty large presence.
In the past the CMP Civillan Marksmanship Program previously the DCM ( dept of civilian marksmanship) is the entity that runs the leg matches, presidents 100, rattle battle, whistler boy, and a few others. In the past all you needed to compete was your personal gear. rifles and ammo were supplied then it went to ammo supplied. These matches are shot with the military style rifles, Garand, M1A/M14, and AR 15/M16 in service rifle grades. The outside shillouette can not be changed. Matches are 200 yds, 300yds and 600yds. Shot in that order , except for Rattle battle which is shot 600 yds, 500yds 300yds and 200yds. These are the civilian versions of the military matches. Ammo is no longer issued for the legs but is for Rattle Battle I think. The CMP shooters have also been asked to help train military shooters in the past. NRA is a Private enity that puts on their matches around the country They hold both service rifle and match rifle divisions. Shot 200yds 300 yds and 600yds and 600yds, 800yds, 900yds and 1000yds for long range. in the Across the coarse matches 2 sighters are allowed at the start of each stage. No supplied ammos for a NRA match normally. The Nra has issues getting range time for matches, as do most STate Assoc. that put them on. The DCM/ CMP is a government orginazation and doesn't have has much of a problem with this.... The NRA pays for Range use, Personnel, patrols and other things. Its multi branch even. Army runs the range, coast guard patrols impact areas here Marines are security and Air Force exchange for commercial rows and PXs. The DCM CMP for years required 120 rds fired in compitetion to purchase a rifle not as a test (No scores were turned in) but to get the rifles to actual competitors. You were allowed to purchase 1 rifle only.
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| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
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