How Many Fouling Shots Needed For Different Lubes?

[PBSmith]

I just read randyrat's thread on his TAC 1 and how Larry Gibson found 10-20 fouling shots were needed to "settle a group."


I don't doubt that the answers to my questions can be found somewhere in this site's archives, but a quick search turned up nothing.

Assuming a clean bore to start with, do all lubes require fouling shots before good grouping can be expected?

Does the number of fouling shots vary with different lubes?

At low .30 caliber rifle velocities, which lubes require minimum fouling for good groups?

Or is this whole business such a mystery that only careful testing at the bench and range (for any particular rifle, bullet, powder) will give answers?

Thanks.
PBSmith.

[runfiverun]

you do have to check for yourself.
I have seen it take about 10-11 shots to get lube to the muzzle on several of my rifles when starting from a clean barrel.
it probably takes a few more to get it worked into the nooks and cranny's.

a really 'wet' lube probably has it spread all around in a few shots.
one magazine full in my 9mm pistol was enough to have to strip it down, and clean the magazine and everything else, with one particular lube experiment.
the accuracy wasn't all that great either [but I didn't get any leading]

[randyrat]

That number can be deceiving, there are way too many variables to come up with a number. Things like what kind of shape is your bore, what lube did you use before..I need to re read what Larry wrote, that doesn't seem right, who is gonna buy a lube that takes 10-20 fouling shots. Maybe if you start out with a super clean bore and you need to condition it per the new lube.

I never need a fouling shot for any of my guns, for one thing I use TAC 1 or TAC X in most of my guns, unless I'm testing something else..I can't afford a fouling shot when I shoot Bullseye, there is no opportunity, when I hunt in the extreme cold, game won't give you a fouling shot

[.22-10-45]

In my .22 Hornet, and .222 Rem. I am using Lyman Super Moly*..(I firm it up with beeswax & lanolin) I find no more than 1 or 2 shots and it's good to go at 100yds. My .38 revolvers using beeswax based lanolin, castor oil & carnuaba lube no foulers necessary.

[PBSmith]

randy, that thread in which you mention Larry's experience was posted 6-1-2015, "TAC 1 lube Not the best?"

No, I wouldn't want a lube that required 10-20 shots to condition the bore, which I presume is what you mean by "settling down."

Did you possibly change the formulation of your lubes since then?

[centershot]

Assuming a clean bore to start with, do all lubes require fouling shots before good grouping can be expected?

In my experience, yes.




Does the number of fouling shots vary with different lubes?

I have only used NRA formula 50/50 lube and Lee tumble lube but I would speculate that it does vary somewhat.


At low .30 caliber rifle velocities, which lubes require minimum fouling for good groups?

How fast??? In my experience, subsonic gallery loads require fewer fouling shots to group well. But, bear in mind, these are gallery loads (under 1000 fps)and are fired indoors at 50 feet. The single jagged hole in the target does get smaller after a few rounds but I wouldn't call this a scientific determination. Outdoors, at 50 & 100 yards (15-1800, depending on the load), it takes my '06 about 30 rounds to settle in from a cold CLEAN bore. Once that bore condition is established it puts the first round from a cold barrel about 1.5" out at 2 o'clock, then settles in as long as I care to shoot. It doesn't go out enough to worry about if I'm hunting.

Or is this whole business such a mystery that only careful testing at the bench and range (for any particular rifle, bullet, powder) will give answers?

In a nutshell, yes. Your gun, your boolit alloy, your lube, your powder charge......it all makes a difference to some degree. It Ain't Rocket Science, you just gotta' load 'em up & go shoot! BE ADVISED!!! Do not judge the performance of your load if you start with a CLEAN bore! Condition the bore, then shoot for group. Bring enuff boolits, in other words!

[randyrat]

randy, that thread in which you mention Larry's experience was posted 6-1-2015, "TAC 1 lube Not the best?"

No, I wouldn't want a lube that required 10-20 shots to condition the bore, which I presume is what you mean by "settling down."

Did you possibly change the formulation of your lubes since then?

No change in the lube.

[35 shooter]

Ben's Red and BLL does it for me. It's one of the main reasons i use them.

Even if i clean the bll. to the bare metal, (which i rarely do anymore) i can use one damp atf oil patch through the bore, followed by one dry patch, and my first shot will be in the group at 100 yds., and usually very close to center of the group.

Most of the time i just run a damp patch of atf oil through the bore when i leave the range and a dry patch before shooting again(no deep cleaning).

As Randy said, game won't stand around to give you a fouling shot, my lube has to work from the first shot and continue to work after that.

Even without the atf oil and just leaving the bore in the fired condition(seasoned), Ben's Red will be very close to centered with the cold bbl. shot for me in both my rifles, and BLL is usually dead center.
I live in a very humid area, so i usually use the atf oil trick down the bore for that reason, but have left my bbl. in the fired condition for months using Ben's Red and BLL with no ill effects.

If you make your own lube, you can't go wrong with these two...if not, i like what Randy said about his lubes and would be trying that.

Bottom line is , i won't go hunting not knowing where my first shot is going from a cold bbl.
I don't have time to fool with lubes that require fouling shots to be in the group.

Btw, sometimes a bit of the lube you use on a patch through the bore before shooting can work....just have to experiment to see.
The lube and the system i use just flat works and has worked for many others as well.

[centershot]

I've wondered about that "lube the bore first" trick, I'm gonna' give that a try next range session!

[Hick]

In tests I've done with my Chrono, I have noticed that when I start with a clean bore, the first shot is higher in velocity, then the velocity goes down for two to three more shots, then it stabilizes. I've often wondered if this is due to lube or barrel warming-- but it is a definite trend. I've seen it with Ben's Red and the NRA formula, but not with jacketed bullets (which I think points to the lube).

[Toymaker]

I also wipe the bore with a lube saturated patch, I mean saturated. Fire one shot and then fire for effect. Otherwise it takes about 5 shots for my RB or HW to settle down to business.

[runfiverun]

the first shot is repairing the lube left in the barrel.
about 3/4 of the way through the lube quest thread you'll see where we identify the problem and name it.
we spent quite a bit of time working on the solution, but anything containing wax will leave behind a coating in the barrel and it will dry out [haze over like a polished floor] over time.
carnuba wax is especially bad about it.

a balance of oils is about the best you can do, other than lowering the load amount for the first shot [we found about a 3-4% reduction to be about right to keep it in the group]

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you search "CORE condition", you will find many discussions that will leave you asking more questions, instead of giving you a simple answer...but it may give you an understanding of why (at least it did for me).

This is one thread you might find with that search...geargnasher offers some great insight in post #14.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?231509-does-your-lube-have-enough-friction


Also, I've found, that when using SL68B, that 2 fouling shots were needed to condition a freshly cleaned (with Ed's Red) Rifle bore (my 243 savage anyway), the first shot is usually about 3 MOA high and to the right. The second shot a little less so. The rest will be in a group, if I do my job.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...how-to-make-it

[Shiloh]

Ambient temperature. Probably fewer shots on a hot 85˚ day than a cool 60˚ day.

shiloh