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Thread: 30-30/Red Dot

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Low Budget Shooter's Avatar
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    Based on Harris article, I started using Red Dot for 30 cal rifle loads a few years ago. That 13 gr Red Dot load he recommends for 30.06 works great.

    I was interested to read in the comments above about someone finding 4.6 grains Red Dot accurate in a variety of applications, because 4.5 grains Red Dot has so far given me better accuracy than anything else under 150-160 gr bullets in 38 Special case in my 357 Mag revolvers.
    A box of premium carry ammo is too expensive at about $30, so I've spent $1,000 on molds, lead, lube, primers, and powder over the past 10 years to make some that's cheaper!

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot 90 % light rifle loads From 223 up to 358 winchester ( 223 rem, 243 Win,..30-30, 8mm x57 35 Rem, 357 win )
    I usually use Red Dot or American Select ( More then always American Select) 4.5 grain to 8.4 grains in all calibers in all grain bullets.
    It is amazing how 900 to 1100 fps works in all calibers...Extreame accuracy and you only need plain base boolits or gas checked boolits without checks!
    I'm not hunting with these just killing paper
    Jim
    " Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington

  3. #43
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    l am not so sure that a lot of those loads would not be dang deadly in the woods. Granted at those speeds we are not talking over 150 yards. But that is still plenty of reach.

    A 158 gr bullet moving 900 to 1100 fps is going to plow through stuff.
    Seems like a lot of people get hooked on speed, think they need speed to kill. Not true.
    Look at all the critters shot by black powder at 1100 to 1300 fps tops.

    Big bullet, soft lead, slow speed holds the expansion down to a reasonable level and gives awesome penetration.

    No I am not convinced that the .357 mag with 4.6 grains of Red Dot below a 158 gr round nose tl bullet would not kill a deer clean at reasonable ranges.

    I think people get lazy, speed is easy. Speed means flat trajectory's with very little change needed in point of aim from 50 yards to beyond 250 yards.

    I had my fling with it, worked fine for crows at 3-400 yards. Till the crows got smart and would no longer land within half a mile of my truck. They ain't dumb.

    But being as I am old and low on energy and ambition it will likely take one of you younger fella's to prove me right or wrong.

    Cast em out of range lead or at most 50/50 range lead/COWW 4.6 grains of Red Dot under a bullet big enough to fill the barrel. I always liked BLL for lube, or BLL with 2% carnuba wax added.

    Get one of those loads in a .35 or bigger bore stacking bullets at 100. Then drop one of those slugs into the boiler of a nice deer. Tell me what happens please. Bet that deer does not take more than 3 steps.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenH View Post
    Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?
    I'll bet it will work. Time to break out the old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook!

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I didn't find anything there. I'll bet one of our 4570 Shooters has an idea.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  7. #47
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    45-70 Government 350gr FPbb
    PR: WLR CM: Rem TempF: 52 OAL: 2.530"
    PT PW Vel SD GS
    RedDot 8.0 897 8.9 1.61
    9.0 966 10.6 1.51
    10.0 1034 10.4 2.3
    11.0 1095 6.9 2.1
    12.0 1160 12.2 1.58
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by KenH View Post
    Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?
    I use 10gr. of Red Dot with a 405gr boolit. Pretty accurate and still sub sonic.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Playing around with QuickLoad this morning and got the following results with a 45-70 loaded with the Lee .457-405-F cast bullet using each of the following powders with a charge to put final fps within ±1 fps in a 32" barrel.

    Red Dot: 10.0 grains = 19,026 psi; 1084 fps
    Green Dot: 10.5 grains = 17,743 psi; 1085 fps
    Bullseye: 9.5 grains = 13,483psi; 1085 fps
    Unique: 10.43 grains = 13,183 psi; 1085 fps

    I think that shows why most folks tend to like Bullseye or Unique for light loads in 45-70 rather than Red or Green Dot powders. Get the same fps at a good bit lower chamber pressure. Not saying the "Dot" powders won't work, and might use some Green Dot myself since I've got 2 lb left over from shotshell reloading days.

    Ken H>
    Last edited by KenH; 08-11-2017 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Haven't tried Red Dot yet but I've had great luck with Green Dot, BE86 and Bullseye for all my .30 caliber rifles when loading in the 5.5 to 7 grain range pushing 100 grain cast boolits. Been using the Lee dipper set for measurement and just a pinch of cotton to hold the load in the bottom of the case. Lots of fun out to 50 yds and I have found that neck tension really can make a difference if the case isn't crimped. Hoping to pick up a Marlin 30-30 next week and will put some Red Dot on the shopping list.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Jmort's link in post #6 tells the tale. 9 to 13 grs with a 405 gr bullet.
    Have fun!

  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    How about a new thread on 45-70 and Red Dot with light to heavy boolits.
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Don't have one of them. But my .444marlin single shot loves Red Dot. 6 grains under 220 gr .430 cast to 13 gr under the Lee 310 gr RCBS clone with gc.

    They all shoot.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    Very Interesting Results Today

    Reading this thread the last few weeks piqued my interest in using Red Dot in my .30-30 Mossberg 464.

    I found some 311291s already lubricated and gas checked but not sized, I used a .312 diameter die in my Lyman 450 to lube and apply the GC. I knew the GCs would be overkill but that was all I could find to load initially. Later I found some "as cast" 311291s which I tumble lubed with Lee Alox, so I loaded 2 batches of 10 each. Everything was identical except the method of boolit lubrication. Rem. once fired cases, CCI 200 primers, 5.0 gr. of recently purchased Red Dot.

    At 25 yards, I first slow fired the 10 lubed and GCed cartridges from the front and rear sandbagged 464. The results were a disappointing group around 1 1/2-2 inches. All shots were called good.

    However, the second batch of identical cartridges except the boolits were just tumble lubed, all 10 grouped into one ragged hole about 1 inch in diameter! What is going on here anyhow? Anyone else had similar results re: tumble lubed vs. GG lubed and GCed?Treetop
    "Treetop"
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    Lt. Gen. George Flynn, USMC

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    It was written to protect your right to shoot tyrants…”
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  15. #55
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I decided I was using too much powder. These are fun and no ear plugs needed.
    Soon I hope to try the accuracy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  16. #56
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    Do you use a filler with that load? I found that it didn't make much difference, but with that light of a load, it might.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  17. #57
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    No filler used. The 5 gr charge under the same bullet worked great, I hope the light-er load does too.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  18. #58
    Boolit Master

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    A Spanish Mauser in .30-30! Sounds sweet. Back in the day (Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd edition, 1980) Lyman listed Red Dot loads for the 169 grain 311291 and the 170 grain #31141, both with a starting load of 6.5 grains for about 1150 fps, and a MAX load of 8.5 grains for 34,500 cup pressure, and about 1350 fps. For the same bullets, the more recent 48th Handbook suggests 4227, with a starting load of 16 grains (around 1600 fps) and a MAX load of 22.0 grains (35,000 cup +, for 1950 fps). Now, these are gas check bullets. A gas check will cover a lot of sins, and makes it much easier to develop a pleasing load. Good luck! Have fun! The old .30 WCF is, in my not so humble opinion, the VERY BEST cast bullet rifle cartridge. Bill

  19. #59
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have shot a fair amount of Red Dot in Rifle from 3 to 5 grains. No filler. Not needed IMO.

    Light load with a slow powder, nother story.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    I've used RedDot/Promo in .223 for "gallery loads", and it worked quite well. I've also seen some phenomenal groups shot with Ed Harris's "the load", 13.0/RedDot/150gr. cast, in any number of military-caliber bolt actions in various calibers, and I am a believer. I'm not sure what it is about RedDot's formulation that makes it usable for reduced rifle loads in so many calibers, but it seems to be widely and well applied to the task, while many other propellants on either side of the burning-rate scale seem not to be.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check