Musket debut

[stubshaft]

From the pictures you posted it appears that the cock may need to be bent downward. The flint, or should I say the lower jaw of the cock is not pointing at the pan.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, the frizzen just might be inadequately hardened, but I am sure the flint is too long. Even when it fires, the ignition time is probably longer than it needs to be.

Even positioning the flint between two squares of sheet lead or leather, instead of one continuous piece, would allow it to come a little further back. If you have a lot of them, or can't get them just the right length, you could use a diamond burr to cut a groove in the rear edge, allowing it to fit a little around the clamping screw.

If you have the means to heat an improvised metal box, like a piece of pipe with two threaded caps, to red hardness for a while, you can harden a frizzen at least as well with animal charcoal as with commercial compounds. I've done it for other parts with a mixture of leather scraps and bone meal from a garden shop, but for my next attempt I've saved horn chips and sawdust, which some say is better, from my shepherd's crook-making attempts. You have to tip it out into water to quench it, and if you can arrange for the water to be aerated with bubbles, colour case-hardening is what you get.

[waksupi]

That definitely isn't a Lott that North Star made. All North Star locks have always been made in-house. No idea of the maker.

The flint is pointed too high, needs to be pointing at the pan.

If a flint needs back further in any gun, I cut a notch in the rear center of the leather, so I can move it back as far as possible.

[peter72]

I'm glad you mentioned the "Lott".
I didn't know what it meant.
The gun is a Pedersoli and I believe all their locks are made in house.
Once again, thankyou for all the replies, Ive learnt a lot.
I'm sending the lock off to have it tuned. Not 100% sure on what that entails?
Frizzen/flint orientation?
Frizzen hardening?

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[KCSO]

Upper Missouri Trading Co 402-388-4844 Doc's UMTC Hardening compound is the best I have ever used.

[JohnCWF]

I have the same Trade Gun. Lock geometry looks the same. Haven't noticed any appreciable lag time, and have had no failures to fire (yet). But I've only put about 20 rounds through it. I use plain round ball and tow (no patch). Going to try shot loads next. Please post an update when your lock comes back from tuning.

[duckey]

Well for S and G's I put my lock into my Lyman GPR which I am just about to the finishing stage. I tried the Agate flint once and saw some gouging in the frozen (I was warned but curiosity got to me). I then put my TOTW English flint on and figure out where it needed to be based off all the input from this thread and noticed a big difference. Turned the lights down in the garage to see just how sparky it was. I think I got but the first shot will tell the truth. The post before mine shows a frozen with light scratches on the frozen and not gouging. I know gouging is not right but the light scratches are, I'm assuming. Is it necessary to recondition the frizzed surface over time? If so what is the proper method?

[swheeler]

Yes, it looks like the flint is too long, and from the picture it looks like the frizzen is in the white? I have rehardened my frizzen 3 times and it is mottled blue or case colored after hardening. The photo is of a cut flint in it now but have used knapped English, French amber and my own Montana agate, all give 100% ignition that seems to me to be faster than all my percussion guns.

you can see the touch hole right below the flint in the photo and I believe this is the correct set up

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you have a camera that lets you leave the shutter open while you fire, in a dark room, you will get some spectacular photos, either for comparing different flint arrangements or just for fun.

[swheeler]

BIS if you are talking to me, that is my cell phone photo and they suck but best I got. It does make a shower of sparks though

[Ballistics in Scotland]

No, just something that could be interesting to anybody with a flintlock. It can show the direction the sparks are heading, and ignition is best if most of them go into the pan.

[OverMax]

There's more chert wear on this frizzen seen in a few shots than I've encountered on my rifle over 30 years. Before any bending work done to the cock other than re-case hardening the frizzen.
Just saying.
Consider swapping out the chert with some others product knapped out of area. As there is such a thing as one knapper's flint being harder than another's.

[waksupi]

There's more chert wear on this frizzen seen in a few shots than I've encountered on my rifle over 30 years. Before any bending work done to the cock other than re-case hardening the frizzen.
Just saying.
Consider swapping out the chert with some others product knapped out of area. As there is such a thing as one knapper's flint being harder than another's.

I've found the same thing. I have a supply of Rich Pierce's flints, and they definitely will chew up a frizzen, to the point I quit using them.

[peter72]

Recieved my lock back from the gent who did some work on it, he is a genius. 8 shots in a row and not 1 flash in the pan.
Let's not talk about how things went after that other than to say I need to continue working on my flinch.


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[square butte]

Who did your lock work?

[peter72]

A gentleman in South Australia.

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[Whiterabbit]

Looks better.

What I find to be very telling is this:

In a dark room (not too dark), dry fire. You should see a shower of sparks hit square in the pan. If you have that plus a good flash hole than your lock time will be as fast as a cap lock.

If you get a shower of sparks but they hit forward of the pan, behind, you have work to do, either hammer tuning, frizzen shaping, something like that. I'm no expert on this, I tinker till I get it.

If you don't get a shower of sparks, gotta change the flint or harden the frizzen. Dunno how to tell the difference. I get poor spark with english flints and GREAT spark with french. I think others get the opposite. I think most people chuck cut agate in the trash. I know I do.

For flint hardening, I've had good luck with brownells surface hardening compound, even though it's not kasenite. My technique is to polish the frizzen, including those gouges you got there, till you are mirror smooth. Get them all out. I chuck the frizzen with locking pliers on the hinge, so the frizzen face is outward facing. Then heat with oxyfuel to really, really hot. I could never get it to work with a propane torch, though I did get success once with a turkey frier. Though that was a huge waste of propane. Oxy-fuel makes the work easy. I'd pass it a few times in the compound, get it nicely exposed. Just the frizzen face. First try, I'd oil quench because "they say" you will crack your frizzen if you water quench it. Then put into service.

If you still gouge it, repeat, but water quench. When I quench my frizzen I try only to submerge the frizzen face in the water, and minimize the quench on the backside of the frizzen and certainly avoid the hinge. Just personal insurance against it shattering when I fire it. That has worked out for me REALLY well. But maybe I'm just lucky.

But if you can get that shower of sparks into the center of the pan (regardless of where the flint is pointing, where it hits the frizzen, etc), then I'll bet that lock time will have you flinching way after that ball is already on its way down range.

[toot]

LOTT, locks were made in ITALY. a very long time ago I had one on a trade musket and it had trouble making enough sparks, sent it to CURLY GASTUMPSKY, long sense gone. he was the original owner of NORTH STAR GUN'S I believe, because it was a very long time ago, and he informed me that they were the locks that he and IRMA, his wife used on there trade guns and he said that they were made in ITALY. he made it spark.

[waksupi]

LOTT, locks were made in ITALY. a very long time ago I had one on a trade musket and it had trouble making enough sparks, sent it to CURLY GASTUMPSKY, long sense gone. he was the original owner of NORTH STAR GUN'S I believe, because it was a very long time ago, and he informed me that they were the locks that he and IRMA, his wife used on there trade guns and he said that they were made in ITALY. he made it spark.

I beg to differ. I'm currently building the last guns for North Star West, and I knew Curly for many years. Curly had made all of the lock part patterns, and the wax casts were sent out to be cast, and then returned for final polish and assembly. The same patterns are still being used with little modification. The same has held through to this day. Maybe Bob will see this thread, and add in if that varied at all when he owned the company.