Titegroup load data confusion ? .45 Colt

[hylander]

I picked up some Titegroup to load for .45 Colt.
Really confused.

For 200gr. LRN
Hodgdens shows: 6.5gr. -7.7gr.
Lyman cast book shows: 5.3gr. - 6.7gr.

Who to believe ?
Where to start ?

[shoot-n-lead]

I would say...Titegroup is a Hodgdon powder...so, they should know.

But, you could start with the Lyman data and work your way up...nothing wrong with that.

[Tackleberry41]

The data is bullet specific. So will vary by the bullet used. A SWC will seat deeper than a RNFP.

[tsubaki]

To help add to the confusion, Hornady lists it at 5.7gr to 7.5gr.

Like Tackleberry said, that data is simply what has been tested with those specific components.

[hylander]

The data is bullet specific. So will vary by the bullet used. A SWC will seat deeper than a RNFP.

They both list 200gr. RNFP

[tsubaki]

Just trying for us all to get on the same page (literally).
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition lists a Lee #452-200-RF with 5.3gr (810fps) to 6.7gr (976fps) and a Lyman #452460 (200gr SWC) with 6.1gr (928fps) to 6.8gr (1021fps) of Titegroup. Velocities are from a 7 1/2" barrel.
Lyman 50th Edition lists the same data for the #452460 load.

[44MAG#1]

Variables within.
Different lots of the same powder.
Different primers
Different lots of the same primer.
Different cases
Different lot of the same cases
Different testing protocol
Different OAL.
Different sizing dia.
Different alloy
Different amounts of crimp
Is the operator of the pressure gun doing the same thing as the other one
Did one tester come in on Monday morn after pulling a weekend drunk and think he set everything up right
Did they reference the test barrel with approved reference ammo or did they do it with a factory load (it has happened)
There are more but you get the drift.
Evidentally you are new at this or the question wouldn't have come up.
Most of us "old hands" know these things
You will be an old hand someday.

[Bo1]

Another consideration I have noticed in todays times are the newer manuals are more "lawyer friendly"

All of my manuals that are 30, 40, and 50 years old are a little heavier on powder loads than todays manuals.

Just a thought

[Tackleberry41]

I went and looked up the data OP is talking about. Hodgden say 'LRNFP', but which one? They dont say who makes the bullet they tested.

Lyman has 2 200gr data set, one for the Lee 452-200-RF, and for a lyman #452460. The lee is a RNFP style, the lyman is a SWC type.

One glaring difference in the hodgden and Lyman data is the OAL. Hodgden is 1.600in, lyman the lee is 1.560in. The 1.600 will give more case capacity, so you need more powder to keep things equal with one set to 1.560in.

So the hogdon data is safe at 1.6in, the Lyman is safe at 1.56in. Both are right.

[Santa Lee]

Howdy, sorta new at this so... I load with a CCI 300 primer, Titegroup 6.8 and 7.3 200 LRNFP from ACME because anything that says ACME I just have to try! OAL is 1.596 firearms are Rossi 1892 16" and Cimarron model P 4 5/8". The 6.8 gr is a peashooter in the pistol and feels like a warm .22 in the Rossi. The 7.3 load has a slightly warmer feel in the pistol. I am going to try IMR 4227 in the Rossi ONLY with some Beartooth 265 gr WNFPGC with CCI 350 primers. I would like to try some heavier boolets in say 280 to 315 gr. in the Rossi. My need now is to learn the changes in pressure as.... 1) what happens as I compress the powder in terms of increased pressure and... 2) change the seating depth. Study, learn ocasionally WINCE and try again. I think I love this stuff.

[runfiverun]

well you won't be compressing titegroup [more than one shot anyway]

think about it like this.
you only have so much volume to work with.
the bullet is moving within that volume constantly as soon as you drop the hammer.
the closer to the powder it is at any one time the higher the pressure will be.
move it away from the gas volume the pressure goes down, your gonna make the same amount of gas in the same amount of time either way.

[Outpost75]

In the .45 Colt I have found that the charge/ velocity relationship of Titegroup in standard pressure loads tracks closely to Bullseye. The excessive free airspace in the case may cause excessive velocity variation due to changes in powder position in the case. For this reason heavier bullets having increased seating depth, to reduce free airspace in the case, are preferred. I could not get acceptible ballistic uniformity, in which the velocity standard deviation of a ten- shot sample, fired with 5 shots powder forward, and 5 shots powder back, did not exceed 3% of the sample average. I settled on 230-grain Saeco #954 or RCBS 45-230CM with 6.5 grains of either Bullseye or Titgroup.

The velocity of this load is 880 fps in my Colt New Service M1909 having a generous cylinder gap of 0.009". I would not increase this load in a 100-year-old gun.

[44MAG#1]

Outpost,

Your statement in post #12 is an accurate assement to what I have found. I have said the same thing for a long time. Most think that Bullseye and similar powders won't vary much with powder positions. Even with a 250 grain in a 45 Colt will show excessive velocities.
I've seen it over the chrono.

[Outpost75]

The independent validation is appreciated. When I attempt this discussion I am usually ignored, and worse, but it is the truth. The same occurs in .38 Special cowboy loads as well with lighter bullets than about 125 grains.