Beyond Ultimate Cannelure Machine

[Zbench]

With all deference to the fellows selling their cannelure machine, I had a job that couldn't be done with a hand cranked device. I ponied up the money for one of Dave Corbin's automated cannelure machines. What a beast. Built like a tank and works perfectly. Below is a short video I just shot. It's much easier to handle the bullets when you aren't holding the camera with the other hand.

The job is to cannelure 50 AE bullets to use with the Desert Eagle. While the round chambers on the case neck, without a significant crimp I always would get some bullets set back upon chambering. With this method, I don't have to crimp as hard and I have not had one move yet.

Since there isn't much written about these machines, I thought I would share. The jackets on those bullets are probably .075" thick, so this is doing quite a bit of work with ease. If you wanted to, you can use multiple wheels and even get a wheel to completed diamond knurl a lead boolit.

[rancher1913]

looks like that could do a number on your finger if your not careful.

[Zbench]

Honestly, it's moving so slow, you'd really have to be asleep to hurt yourself. I am more careful when I'm not holding the camera. It works best and safest if you just keep feeding them from the left and let the wheel push them out on the right free of the wheel where they can be picked up away from moving parts.

[mckenziedrums]

I didn't even know he made one... that's cool.

[footpetaljones]

Honestly, it's moving so slow, you'd really have to be asleep to hurt yourself. I am more careful when I'm not holding the camera. It works best and safest if you just keep feeding them from the left and let the wheel push them out on the right free of the wheel where they can be picked up away from moving parts.

I'd be more worried about the torque than the speed. How big is the motor driving it?

It looks like the perfect candidate to hook up a vibratory feeder to, for automated canneluring. Or even simpler, mount it at 45 degrees and put a feeder tube on it.

[anotherred]

That is cool!!

[JRLesan]

$700.00 (and probably freight) doesn't seem too extravagant. Am waiting now for over a year for a set of Richard's 50 caliber dies for my 500 S&W. If I ever get serious about shooting the thing and, provided I get the dies, I might look into one of these...

[Zbench]

Dave is turning stuff around very quickly now. He has increased staff and converted mostly to CNC. I had that machine in just a couple weeks. You might consider giving Dave a shot the next time you need dies. They cost more, but you don't have to wait 3 years to get them. Trade offs.

[rayraywolf]

Zbench, what could you not do with the hand crank cannelure that the automated machine can do? Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm very new to swaging and still have not got to the point of needing cannelures.

[308Jeff]

Neato immediately comes to mind.

[Zbench]

For a normal jacket, with .015" walls, the hand cranked model works ok. But, with the bullets I'm canneluring, the jacket is probably .075" thick. You can press and turn the crank until the skin comes off your hand and it won't put a dent in it. With this machine, since it forces the bullet between a hardened eccentric ramp and the cannelure wheel, you get perfection with no effort. So, the hand cranked machine just doesn't work in this application.

It's 100% more repeatable, and the spacing on the cannelure groove looks like a professional bullet, not ragged like the CH4D model I have that this replaced.

[rayraywolf]

Zbench, thanks for the explanation! I now understand what you mean.

[uncle dino]

The only hand cannelure tool I have that will do heavy jackets is chuck busters ultimate cannelure tool. I routinely do .050 jackets with it.. But that power tool makes it real easy.. D

[Traffer]

What an ingenious machine. Very simple concept extremely well made. Thanks for posting a picture of this. It helps me get a picture in my mind of how a roll crimp machine for 22rf works.

[Zbench]

Chuckbuster wrote me a private message indicating he was upset that I lumped the "Ultimate Cannelure Machine" into the same category as the CH4D tool I was using previously. While not the intent of the post, which is clearly to show that there is only one Ultimate Cannelure Machine, and that's the one in the video, in my mind they are infact in the same category as they are both hand cranked and you supply the horsepower to get the cranking done. I'm certain that the UCT design is head and shoulders above the CH4D device, but not superior to the Corbin machine shown above.

Having said that and willing to admit I'm wrong when I am, I invite Chuckbuster to post a video of his Ultimate Cannelure Machine in this thread, putting a cannelure in a Hornady 50 AE bullet stock number 50101 and let everyone decide the ease with which it can be accomplished. I normally would let stuff like this go, but when I'm accused of "not having any real knowledge" on most of what I'm speaking about, it's hard not to take it personally.

So, like most things in life, I like to take lemons and make lemonade. Chuckbuster please post the UCT in action on Hornady bullet 50101 or anyone else please. We would all like to see it work it's magic.

Disclaimer: I don't work or shill for Corbin, but do buy a lot of his tools

[mckenziedrums]

Now now... no reason to turn this into a battle.

There's a BIG difference in price between a hand cranked tool and a powered machine.

I have chuckbuster's Ultimate Cannelure tool and it is an outstanding piece of equipment. It is MUCH MUCH better than the CH4D option or any of the other hand cranked tools I've seen on the market. (Including Corbin's) However, it's not a $700 machine that plugs in and automates the process. They are very different machines for very different audiences.

As much as I love the Ultimate Cannelure tool, if I had to put out production numbers I'd like get a machine to automate the process. That's just how you do it when you're doing volume. So, each tool is very good for its intended purpose.

[KAYDADOG]

JRLesan, Ordered a set of 50/cal dies from Dave earlier this year and received them in less than four weeks. Using 45/ACP cases for jackets. Currently making 300-325/gr for 50/cal Desert Eagle but the case needs to be trimmed, just to long for this light of a bullet. For the 500 S&W the die set can easily make 400-600/gr round nose bullets and hollow point bullets. These are only costing about $0.06 each to make versus purchased ones for $0.50-$0.60 each. It won't take long for this set of dies to pay for themselves, that rarely happens. The 45/ACP cases will work either annealed or not but will be annealing all others in the future. I'm using a hydraulic press where there is no effort in forming the case. I think when using cases for jackets annealing the case will just make sure it fully expands in the die when the core is seated.
I just invested in a Fluxeon Induction annealer and it will fully anneal a case in less than 4.5/seconds. I went a step further with the Fluxeon and fully automated a setup which will fully anneal 9/mm or 45/ACP cases continuously in about 9/sec. I can also just do rifle case necks when the need arises. It just took me about two months to finish this project. Still making some final last changes to fully complete.
Just recently received a set of dies from Dave to form 9/mm cases into jackets for 9/mm, 357/Sig or 357/mag. I just annealed 100 9/mm cases for initial setup to see if I will need to trim the cases. The finished 357 jackets are 0.800" in length. I will be initially starting at a 160/gr finished bullet to see what happens. These bullets will cost only about $0.03 each.
The swaging projects never end.

[dragon813gt]

Chuckbuster wrote me a private message indicating he was upset that I lumped the "Ultimate Cannelure Machine" into the same category as the CH4D tool I was using previously. While not the intent of the post, which is clearly to show that there is only one Ultimate Cannelure Machine, and that's the one in the video, in my mind they are infact in the same category as they are both hand cranked and you supply the horsepower to get the cranking done.

I happen to agree w/ him. You put the name of his product in the thread title. And then we find out you weren't using one. You can call the powered one ultimate if you like but the fact is you used a product name and you didn't even use the tool.

As far as using the UCT for 50 cal bullets. I was trying to find the video but can't right now. There is one out there of someone using the UCT on the discontinued Winchester Platinum Tips. Those jackets are much harder than copper jackets.

Edit:
I found the video: https://youtu.be/8UqLECA1uxI

[chuckbuster]

Thanx Dragon and "drums"
I guess we will let this one rest.
Kevin

[Zbench]

I'm going to rant, so if that sort of thing offends you, then please avert your gaze.

In the first line, I say and I quote again: "With all deference to the fellows selling their cannelure machine, I had a job that couldn't be done with a hand cranked device."

The point of the post was to talk about a tool that could do the job I needed it to, not to throw the Ultimate Cannelure Machine under the bus.

People on this forum need to get over themselves. Seriously. I've seen the cycle repeat over and over again here. Someone comes up with a nifty idea and markets it. Someone posts something that isn't even remotely critical, unless you are jaded and look at it standing on your head after a night of drinking and then you get attacked because you dare to have an opinion and threaten someone's rice bowl. That's just nuts.

Once again, I ask, please show the UCT canneluring the bullet in question. Only if it can, with similar results, is my original post without merit.

Happy Canneluring, be it with the CH4D, the UCT, or a hand sharpened chasing tool struck with a petrified mastodon bone.