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Thread: Lee "collet crimp die" for straight wall pistol cartridges?

  1. #21
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    Lee "collet crimp die" for straight wall pistol cartridges?

    Pictures are worth a thousand words.

    Carbide Factory Crimp Die


    Collet Style Crimp Die(no cutaway available)
    Yes, I'm aware of how the instructions are labeled in the packaging.


    Short Bottle Neck Collet Style Factory Crimp Die


    Factory Crimp Die


    If you notice the name is different for every one. Same word are used but they all have different names. You need to call them by the proper name so people know which one you're talking about.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    Dave is a great guy. And no doubt the taper crimp works for you. But there is no sane reason to claim it either equals or exceeds the potential of the collet crimp. No reason to go there.
    JMort you made the statement about taper crimp die not working. I posted a revolver with about twice the recoil and picture where I made meat with it. I've proved taper crimp die's work. You have not proven where the Lee Collet die is better. I have a plethora of crimp dies and quite a few LEE pistol and rifle. I use them for working up loads for different wildcat or obsolete stuff and then I order my favorite crimp die from one of four manufacturers. I like the Redding Profile Crimp Die and used that for years on magnums up to 454 Cassull. They sit on the shelf for the most part. I used Lee's Factory Carbide Crimp die in 10mm for a 400 GNR lever action. This is the 30-30 blown straight. It worked but it was replaced by one made by CH4D. I still have the die. I have a 357 wildcats, 44, 41, 45, 47, and 50. There are no Lee products I used for the 500 Linebaugh for a reason. That includes their Custom Services side. I have a Redding 375 Winchester Profile Crimp die, taper crimp die and a roll crimp die. I also have a 458 Win Mag that sports all three dies. Love CZ rifles and Savage!

    So I guess the burden of proof is your's not mine. The Lee Collet die reminds me of the old stake crimp although the pattern is tighter.

    take care and peace,

    r1kk1

  3. #23
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    "JMort you made the statement about taper crimp die not working"

    No where in this thread.
    Where?
    When?
    That is a lie

    All I said was


    "Dave is a great guy. And no doubt the taper crimp works for you. "



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    I was not going to comment, but there is no way a taper crimp crimp will come close to a collet crimp. Fully agree with the modification of the collet fingers.
    What about this!

  5. #25
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    That does not say a taper crimp will not work. It states that the collet die has far more crimping potential. The preceeding post from Doug clearly explains why and how. I will say it again, I have "no doubt the taper crimp works for you."

  6. #26
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    I reread Doug's post. My post #18 shoots it down no pun intended.

    Are you open to results for 44 Mag TC and 454 Cassull lever action with a TC die? I already have the dies. . .

    r1kk1

  7. #27
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    I have no doubt you have great results with the taper crimp. Dave is a great and knowledgeable guy. CH4D is a great operation. We will have to disagree. I will defer to you as a general matter, as you are one of the more knowledgeable members.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    I have no doubt you have great results with the taper crimp. Dave is a great and knowledgeable guy. CH4D is a great operation. We will have to disagree. I will defer to you as a general matter, as you are one of the more knowledgeable members.
    Agree jmort. We agree to disagree. Fair enough.

    r1kk1

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1kk1 View Post
    I reread Doug's post. My post #18 shoots it down no pun intended.
    r1kk1

    Nosir, your #18 post does not shoot down the comment I made about the taper crimp die not holding heavy for caliber boolits against primer flash, recoil, etc.. And I MAINTAIN that statement.

    Now... You may be calling something a taper crimp when it CLEARLY is a rolled crimp with a compressed ring at the case mouth VERY similar to the collet crimp's work!

    This (see red arrow) is NOT a taper crimp!



    Taper crimp refers to the gentle taper used in autopistol ammo that must headspace on the case mouth, and I don't care HOW MUCH neck tension you have, you will NOT hold a heavy boolit in a big bore hand cannon with a taper crimp as applied to a 45 ACP case. No way on God's green earth will this happen. If it did, people would be using it constantly to extend case life.

    THIS is a taper crimp!



    Not sure what die you used for your version of a taper crimp, but I see no taper at all, I see a rolled crimp with a crimped ring exactly like my collet crimp does, just narrower.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  10. #30
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    This is the modified collet crimp die's footprint on a 45 Colt case with a slightly harder C452-300-RF than the softer boolit I posted in my earlier reply. This crimp looks more like your "taper crimp" than a real taper crimp..

    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  11. #31
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    One more comment about your crimp,,, Notice anything similar? Notice how your boolits don't jump crimp? Mine don't budge at all. I thing the imagery speaks for itself.. What we have here is two slightly different but very effective crimps.





    I went back and looked at your die photo.. You may SAY this is a taper crimp die, and Hornady may have marked it as a TC die, but the application you use it for provides the SAME style crimp as my modded collet crimp, a tightened band that firmly presses into the side of the boolit. Nosir your #18 post is not proving me wrong, it's proving me RIGHT. You say ES is in single digits. SAME thing I said. Your crimp and mine are doing the SAME thing.





    But.. This post was not and is not meant to spark argument. It is discussion, and the OT of the thread was about collet crimp die for straight walled pistol cartridges, and my point is that they are very beneficial and very useful, and could be a life saver if you carried a heavy boolit in a big bore revolver in dangerous game country. I would NOT want to carry ammo that had a snowball's chance in hades of jumping crimp. The collet crimp is an excellent way to hold on to a heavy boolit.

    Also, the softer the alloy, the more crimp is needed because softer lead boolits will swage against the crimp and the base of the boolit can move forward. Hardcast needs 40% of the crimp the same boolit in 50/50+2% needs.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 03-22-2017 at 10:13 AM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  12. #32
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    Since I mostly shoot Copper coated or HiTec coated bullets I love the Lee Collet crimp die since it doesn't cut through the coating like a heavy roll crimp can. I use them in both my .357 and .41 mag revolvers and especially my levers.

  13. #33
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    IME, Lee's collet crimpers are the very best available; the major advantage of the collet crimper is it's not so case length sensitive. To obtain consistent crimps with a conventional taper or roll crimper demands the cases be very near the same length and I don't enjoy case trimming.

    The major advantage of Lee's excellent post sizing "after seating" carbide ring for straight wall cartridges is to insure easy chambering of every round and it works as advertised. It IS possible for the die to reduce the diameter of handgun bullets after seating and that isn't helpful for best accuracy but sometimes absolute reliability in a handgun takes precedence over the absolutely tiniest groups.

    Those shooting from fat chambers probably won't need the carbide FCD at all but the current fad of using fat cast bullets in cases of differing wall thicknesses can easily result in cartridges that won't reliably chamber in tight chambers and jams can result in disaster. I don't use Lee FCD crimpers on my .38 Spec. target ammo but I sure do on ALL of my .45 ACP. .357/.44 Mag ammo dedicated for "social work".
    *

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