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Thread: can this conversion be done?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    can this conversion be done?

    i bought a new Rock Island 1911 ...on the .22TCM caliber.

    this is a hot fast moving high pressure round. (can do north of 2500 FPS.)

    they also give you a 9mm barrel and slide return spring so that you can also shoot 9mm ammo thru it.

    now for the rub.....the 22 tcm cartridge is a wildcat round based on the .223 rifle cartridge as the parent
    shell case. they cut the case down and re-form the neck to .22 caliber ...the finished cartridges are loaded into a .38 super magazine.

    it works fine as a .22TCM because the cartridge overall length is 1.265" and you must use the .38 super magazine....however you also must use the same magazine to shoot 9mm ammo and their overall length is 1.150" that's about .115" shorter... and what happens? stove pipes!

    now it seems to me that the better conversion choice might have been .22TCM and .38 super...BUT!
    .38 super has a very small rim..... so......the .38 super cartridge case won't butt up on the slide like it's supposed to in order to go into full battery....is it possible i could turn the rims off in a lathe?

    so...i was thinking, since the .22TCM is based on the .223 case...why not use a .223 case...cut it down to .38 super length, get a .38 super barrel add a spring ....work up loads for it.

    to my thinking having the 2 calibers very close to the same overall length should help eliminate stove piping.

    or should i use a 147 grain boolit and seat it out to 1.265" and work up loads for it that way?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    have you tried a 9m/m mag?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob208 View Post
    have you tried a 9m/m mag?
    you cannot use a 9mm mag in a .22TCM

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Mytmousemalibu's Avatar
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    Just get some .38 Super Comp, its the rimless version of .38 Super. Its still a pretty popular caliber in USPSA Open Division. I have a few piece i picked up off the ranges but my open gun is 9mm so if you want a few to play with, I can donate some to you. You can also seat your 9mm out longer. I run my 9mm Major power factor loads between 1.150 out to 1.200 OAL. As long as it fits your magazines and still chambers, you are good.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master



    NavyVet1959's Avatar
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    I have one of the RIA M1911 .22TCM / 9mm combos like you are talking about. I've added a .38 SUPER barrel to it. I've even fired 9mm in the .38 SUPER barrel. For hot loads, I make my ".38 SUPER" brass out of .223 and since I'm loading it to 9x23 pressure, what I've been informed that what I've basically created is the 9mm Super Cooper.

    Guns & Ammo -- Page 1
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    It is possible to fit a full size M1911 barrel in the mid-size RIA M1911 frame, but it requires a bit of filing to remove the ramped portion in front of where the connector attaches.

    With my conversion though, one thing that I noticed is that the 105 gr SWC Lee mold does not feed well, but the 124 gr TC mold works a lot better.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by mozeppa View Post
    you cannot use a 9mm mag in a .22TCM
    The RIA .22TCM/9mm uses the .38 SUPER mags made by Mec-gar. Same magazine is used for both .22TCM and 9mm. It's a full size magazine, so it can handle the OAL of .38 SUPER or 9x23.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

    Tag Line


  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    I believe what bob208 was suggesting was to use a 9mm magazine for 9mm rounds, not the .22TCM. It would cure the feeding isssues when shooting 9mm from the gun.

    Robert

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I believe what bob208 was suggesting was to use a 9mm magazine for 9mm rounds, not the .22TCM. It would cure the feeding isssues when shooting 9mm from the gun.

    Robert
    I know that is what he meant....but the fact is a 9mm mag does not fill the slot that a .38 super mag. does.

    .38 super is about 1/4" wider than the 9mm magazine.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    thanks navy vet!

    now to get some .223 brass ...a barrel...a chop saw....some skills....

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Seating the 9mm bullets out farther won't work why? I had a 7.62 Tok with an extra 9mm barrel and it worked for me. Best,Thomas.
    Last edited by Texas by God; 03-20-2017 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozeppa View Post
    I know that is what he meant....but the fact is a 9mm mag does not fill the slot that a .38 super mag. does.

    .38 super is about 1/4" wider than the 9mm magazine.
    I was thinking it was a single stack 1911, in which case they do make 9mm mags that fit. Double stack, I'm not sure.

    Robert

  12. #12
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Seating the 9mm bullets out farther won't work why? I had a 7.62 Tok with an extra 9mm barrel and it worked for me. Best,Thomas.
    If you are using a light bullet, seating the bullet in a 9x19 case at the OAL for .38 SUPER or 9x23, you just don't end up with enough lead in the brass to hold it adequately.

    This is a photo of the Lee 358-105-SWC loaded to the SAAMI max OAL for 9x19. It's just barely in the case. If you tried loading it to the max OAL for 9x23 / .38 SUPER, it wouldn't even be *touching* the case.

    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    True Navy Vet. I used 124 gr in mine. I should have said that.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master KYCaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozeppa View Post
    thanks navy vet!

    now to get some .223 brass ...a barrel...a chop saw....some skills....

    Seems to me 38 Super Comp would be a much easier solution than chopping, sizing, trimming, reaming, annealing 223 to end up with the same case.

    Or 38 TJ, or 9X23. Starline offers all of them. Don't be concerned about the strength of the Starline cases, they're +P rated, even though the headstamp doesn't say so.

    Jerry
    Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by KYCaster View Post
    Seems to me 38 Super Comp would be a much easier solution than chopping, sizing, trimming, reaming, annealing 223 to end up with the same case.

    Or 38 TJ, or 9X23. Starline offers all of them. Don't be concerned about the strength of the Starline cases, they're +P rated, even though the headstamp doesn't say so.

    Jerry
    I figure .223 until the neck splits... Then convert to .300 AAC until the neck splits... Then convert to either .38 Super Cooper or .22 TCM...
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

    Tag Line


  16. #16
    Boolit Master GoodOlBoy's Avatar
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    FYI stovepipes are not caused by overall bullet length they are caused by limp wrist-ing a low pressure/recoil round in a 1911 with a milspec or heavier recoil spring...

    Just a note.

    God Bless, and One Love.

    GoodOlBoy
    Yes I can be long winded. Yes I follow rabbit trails. Yes I admit when I am wrong. Your mileage may vary.

    Keep your powder dry. Watch yer Top knot.

    "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!"

    Yes there were "Short" 45 Colts! http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Heres a suggestion that may not work.
    Get a follower and spring made for a 9mm magazine of the same general type as the mag you have and install those parts along with a spacer block in the magazine or a spare magazine that fits the frame.

    Wasn't the rimless version of the 38 Super Auto a development of the Army Marksmanship Unit?
    They created several wildcat cartridges and chambered pistols for them trying to come up with the best combination of features for competition shooting.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multigunner View Post
    Heres a suggestion that may not work.
    Get a follower and spring made for a 9mm magazine of the same general type as the mag you have and install those parts along with a spacer block in the magazine or a spare magazine that fits the frame.

    Wasn't the rimless version of the 38 Super Auto a development of the Army Marksmanship Unit?
    They created several wildcat cartridges and chambered pistols for them trying to come up with the best combination of features for competition shooting.
    You may be thinking of the 38 AMU. It was a rimless 38 Special round used until they figured out how to get MRWC rounds to feed reliably in the Colt National Match and the S&W Model 52.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

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