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Thread: Factory Lead Bullet Rifle for Deer?

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post

    I like a 35 caliber also.

    Who makes an inexpensive rifle for these two cartridges ?

    Define "inexpensive" for your situation.

    There are plenty of excellent/used Marlin 336's out there in .35 Remington for sale in the $300-$500 range.

    While a Handi might cost less, he might be better off with a repeater.

    FWIW, there's a cast-boolit friendly .30-30 boltgun for sale over on the leverguns forum, with loading dies & empty brass for $300:

    http://www.levergunscommunity.com/vi...hp?f=2&t=68507




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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    Define "inexpensive" for your situation.

    There are plenty of excellent/used Marlin 336's out there in .35 Remington for sale in the $300-$500 range.

    While a Handi might cost less, he might be better off with a repeater.

    FWIW, there's a cast-boolit friendly .30-30 boltgun for sale over on the leverguns forum, with loading dies & empty brass for $300:
    I think with a little help the $300 plus is doable for him. A few years ago he came to visit during deer season with a borrowed 44 Mag lever action gun. He managed to shoot a deer with it in the woods, but a second shot at another deer ended up with a messed up gun and jammed casing in the gun and extra parts left over. He had been firing factory ammo from WalMart. I don't remember what the make of the gun was, not Remington or Winchester or Henry. But I don't think he needs another one of those. But the 44 Mag caliber was good for him and worked very well. I looked at several of those on the gun manufacturers web sights and was kind of taken back by the 1:38 twist rate of the barrels in them. Probably not good for heavy lead bullets. Only good for 240 grain jacketed bullets.

  3. #23
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    .358 repeaters are great (perfect IMO) but will most likely be over budget.
    What about the .44 Mag Rossi M92's?
    Mine is quite nice for the money, and has a 1:30 twist IIRC.
    The OP has mentioned farmland; my only concern is that some ranges might be to far for the .44 ?

  4. #24
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    CVA scout V2 in 44 mag 35 rem or 35 whelen
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockky View Post
    CVA scout V2 in 44 mag 35 rem or 35 whelen
    I personally like the three caliber options on this rifle. But I am rather uncomfortable recommending to him a "break-action" type of rifle due to a bad experience I had with another one chambered in .243. The action had loosened after a few years of shooting so that a slight give in the action let the shell casing expand too much. And even after loosening up the full-length resizing die so that it was a little hard to put the shells back into the gun after resizing, I could only get three loads out of new factory brass before the case head separation problem. So it was strictly a factory shell and throw-away the brass proposition. Of course, maybe with low pressure lead bullet loads I might have gotten a few more reloads before case head separation. But with a bolt action gun or even a lever action gun I don't have that problem. With my shotguns I don't have a problem (side by side and over-under and single shot). But they are really low pressure as opposed to a rifle pressure. Even with bolt action rifles with headspace issues, like the 303 British are famous for, I can get long life spans on my brass just by neck sizing. But I can't do that with a break action rifle. When I tried I couldn't chamber the reloaded cartridge again and snap the action back closed to lock. They might be alright for a 22 long rifle maybe since you throw the brass away. But I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending a break action rifle for a high pressure bottle-necked round.

  6. #26
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    30-06.

  7. #27
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    If you are still considering a 44, I really do not see a problem with a CVA break action. I have toyed with the idea of getting their handgun version in 357, 300 BO or 44. The price is just hard to beat and accuracy is great based on all the reports I have seen.

    First point, not all break actions guns are the same. Most regard the TC encore to be very solid. Unless your problem was with a CVA, I have not seen any bad reports regarding the CVA guns.

    Second point, straight wall cartridges also generate less stress on the action than a bottleneck. Even the much less stout TC Contender based guns have a good track record of not shooting loose with 44 magnums. Reports do exist of strectched contender frames with hot loads from bottleneck cartridges based on 30-30 brass. By the way, a 243 is about as bad as it gets for generating the loads that cause frame stretch (large case diameter, small bullet diameter, high pressures) and no one would ever recommend this caliber for a Contender.

    The risk of having a 44 mag CVA hunter ($312 current price on the CVA site) "shoot loose" or otherwise have issues with short case life would seem to be very very low. The CVA scout seems to run an extra $100 or so.

    Again, the 44 has lots of advantages when it comes to things like factory ammo cost and availability, used dies, brass (I have plenty and no gun), J word bullets, Cast boolits, load data, and experience base from actual use. Resale value (if needed) for a gun in 44 is also about as good as it gets.

    44 rifles and carbines also have a great track record of being "just plain fun" when shooting mild handloads or factory 44 special ammo.
    Last edited by P Flados; 03-22-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  8. #28
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    Ruger made a hammerless .44 magnum carbine and also a bolt action if you're set on a .44.

    Personally, I don't think a guy can go wrong with a .30-06 bolt gun for anything. Lots of them out there is the price range you're looking for.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master OnHoPr's Avatar
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    I think you have too many variables to consider, really, in this circa.

    a. With lead the bigger caliber is most likely better like the 44 or 45 cals

    b. Shooting in soy bean fields in over 10 mph winds makes these calibers more or less iffy past 150 yds with lead or jwords.

    c. Most ammo sold at wally world is going to be 30 cal or sub 30 cal.

    d. Wally world’s available stock is forever changing to meet social media standards, so that variable should really not have so much weight. Ammo regardless may have to purchase at the LGS or online. It may be more expensive at the LGS and shipping would bring the overall price up for jwords.

    e. The 30 & 32 cals maybe be better with jwords when it comes to the higher BCs and shootin in 12 to 17 mph winds @ 223 yards than the cast, but I consider them to be minimum cals for newbies or experienced with cast at extended ranges and possible property lines or hard tracking ground.

    f. There is the 375 cal but rifles and ammo along with longer range shoot might be expensive, hard to come by, and not meet the criteria of a 250 yard shot in the soy bean field.

    g. This sort narrows down the 338 & 35 cals. Both would have enough BC to shoot jwords or cast in moderate breezes past 200 yds. I am putting a little weight on this criteria because hitting the boiler room is sorta imperative. From what I gather from the ages is that the 35 cal can be respectable in acquiring game with both style boolits. The only thing is that 338 & 35 factory ammo is going to be + $30 a box anywhere if they have it. Handloading would definitely be cheaper. The brass can always be made easy.

    Maybe I could go on but, it seems like you and a really good suggestion are in still in quandary. Didn’t you ask this question a whiiillle back?

    He[[, I don’t know, maybe a turk 8mm. Get it D&T and with that one Lyman boolit with an over than .400 BC will buck the wind in a soy bean field. You could always load jwords in it. It should be economical or close to it. He could always find $20 hunting jwords online or cheap surplus to just blast and shoot. He could always pretty it up a piece a year till it was a nice bubbaed mauser. It is one step above the 30 cal. Though, the twist in certain 8mms a little less desirable for all applications inquired about.

    Tough question
    May you hands be warmed on a frosty day.

  10. #30
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    I went back & looked through the entire thread. Summary: Deer hunter for the grandson of a boolit man, did Ok with an offbrand 44 lever gun until he broke it, soy bean fields, ~$300, needs over the counter ammo availablity, interested in using boolits, is worried about break open actions based on a bad experience with a 243.

    New guns as listed below. Shop around & you can find them close to or just over $300:

    Savage axis. I see both 308 & 30-06 as great with factory ammo and fine with cast.
    The CVA Hunter in 44 mag.

    Bigger bore guns like 35 Rem, 444, 35 whelen, would be effective and more cast friendly, but do not meet the easy factory ammo criteria. When shopping on-line, I was surprised to see more than a few offerings for 35 whelen (more than the other two). Using on-line offerings as a gage, the other cast friendly round I saw that has not been discussed is 45-70.

    As an off topic side note, while I was poking around looking at on-line ammo (I never buy any, so this is rare), I was pleased to see some 32-40 (a sentimental favorite of mine) and some 357 maximum. If CVA would offer guns in 357 maximum, sales volumes would probably not be high but would probably be steady. In a break open rifle, this really is a great option. Can shoot 38s for plinking, is "good enough" for medium range deer hunting with factory 357 mags, and is close to 35 rem with Maximums. In cast, I push my ASBB HF red powder coated Lee 200 RNFPs (without gas checks) to 1760 fps from my 14" contender.
    Last edited by P Flados; 03-23-2017 at 12:19 PM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy ikarus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    I went back & looked through the entire thread. ..

    Bigger bore guns like 35 Rem, 444, 35 whelen, would be effective and more cast friendly, but do not meet the easy factory ammo criteria. When shopping on-line, I was surprised to see more than a few offerings for 35 whelen (more than the other two). Using on-line offerings as a gage, the other cast friendly round I saw that has not been discussed is 45-70.
    45-70 was mentioned in post #8.

    I own leverguns in both 44 and 35 rem. Neither one is a "beanfield gun" and the 44 mag loses steam long before the 35 rem does. Its strictly a 100yd rifle. Maybe 150 for the 35.

    Someone needs to reevaluate their needs.

  12. #32
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    Savage, Ruger and Thompson Center all have low end bolt-guns in $300 range in 308 or 30-06, shop the sales at Cabela's, Sportsmen's Warehouse,Walmart, check www.galleryofguns.com, places like that. If you ever hunt beyond Missouri, say Colorado or Wyoming for elk or antelope, open country deer in Kansas, the 308 is useful. Yes the 35 Rem, 44 Mag and 30-30 do kill elk, but they are not my first choice for ranges over 150 yards and/or game bigger than deer. The 308 is highly available, a fine cast bullet cartridge and easy to load. The 06 is a good cartridge but doe not offer enough extra benefits to go with the extra weight of the longer rifles(I own an FN Mauser 06 and a Garand, but use a 308).

  13. #33
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    Remington classic in 35W

  14. #34
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    i would try...

    Husqvarna Rifles, Simpson Ltd

    if you reload.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    i would try...

    Husqvarna Rifles, Simpson Ltd

    if you reload.
    those are screaming deals on a lead rifle

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoyka View Post
    i would try...

    Husqvarna Rifles, Simpson Ltd

    if you reload.
    What is a 9.3 x 57 in American terms (inches). I know an 8 x 57 is a standard Mauser cartridge that shoots a .323 caliber bullet. So, a 9.3 bullet must be approximately 0.366 caliber? Thats right between a 35 caliber (0.358) and a 375 caliber (.375). The casing is apparently the same length as an 8mm Mauser, but is it the same diameter so a 9.3 x 57 could be reformed from a 8 x 57 brass?

  17. #37
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    I think I am leaning more toward recommending to the boy an American made rifle like the Ruger American in 308 caliber for the easiest to purchase and buy ammo for, that could also be reloaded with lead bullets. A standard 30-06 is also a good option but it has too much empty space in the casing for shooting lead bullets. Of course I would much rather him buy a 38-55 lever action rifle, but the chances of him finding one of those is pretty slim too.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    I think I am leaning more toward recommending to the boy an American made rifle like the Ruger American in 308 caliber for the easiest to purchase and buy ammo for, that could also be reloaded with lead bullets. A standard 30-06 is also a good option but it has too much empty space in the casing for shooting lead bullets. Of course I would much rather him buy a 38-55 lever action rifle, but the chances of him finding one of those is pretty slim too.
    I think you're right on the money. I hunt with a ruger77/357 and find it more than effective out to 100yards, but from you're posts, I feel you are spot on with the 308 choice.

  19. #39
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    DonMountain,

    It is pretty obvious that your preference would lean the decision more toward "cast friendly" than "easy factory ammo".

    For all of us cast boolit addicts, it is just so hard to see it any other way. I also admit to beign little prejudiced toward what I enjoy shooting the most (pistol cartridges).

    In this case I was thinking that the facts were really supporting the 308. With a good 308 bolt action, you are assured that the gun will not stand in the way of him becoming a successful hunter.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    What is a 9.3 x 57 in American terms (inches). I know an 8 x 57 is a standard Mauser cartridge that shoots a .323 caliber bullet. So, a 9.3 bullet must be approximately 0.366 caliber? Thats right between a 35 caliber (0.358) and a 375 caliber (.375). The casing is apparently the same length as an 8mm Mauser, but is it the same diameter so a 9.3 x 57 could be reformed from a 8 x 57 brass?
    yep, you can make brass from a 8x57. all you have to do is get a 9.3x57 die and run it thru. the bullet dia. is .366", any 9.3mm is more european than anything else. Mountain Molds Cast Bullet Molds and
    .368 -9.3mm, NOE Bullet Moulds
    and
    Accurate Molds: Custom Bullet Molds

    will make them.

    also ~ 36 Caliber Cast Bullets ~ - The Bull Shop will make cast boolits.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check