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Thread: Which mould for single shot 44 mag rifle?

  1. #21
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    44man's Avatar
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    Twist is so important in any gun. I shoot mostly revolvers and the Ruger 1 in 20" can handle up to 330 gr boolits. A rifle can shoot faster so you might not want as fast as it can go. There will be a sweet spot.
    I look at the S&W 29 with a 1 in 18-3/4" rate and 240 gr boolits in flight will rotate around the flight path but are still super accurate. Go to a 250 to 265 and the boolit stops the rotation. The Ruger 1 in 20" will not rotate with a 240 gr. yet will stabilize heavy boolits. The only thing is you can not slow the heavy boolit because not enough spin is a slingshot or BB gun. As long as you keep pressure in limits, you can make a lot of boolits shoot. I much prefer a faster spin anyway since you can reduce velocity and still spin up.
    You can't make the little 44 fast enough in a 1 in 38" rate.
    My opinion is the .44 should be 1 in 16" to expand boolit weights. As a revolver barrel gets shorter, the twist should get faster.
    1 in 20" should be just right in a 44 rifle. Just find the velocity and spin each boolit needs.
    We are still pulling hair with a 1 in 38" 444. Even it can't reach spin.

  2. #22
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    You guys are giving me a lot to think about- appreciate the great info.

    Update-

    Was able to head out back a little yesterday. Rifle is bone stock from factory, cleaned it up a little and had mounted a 4x Leuopold the night before. For now just running a box of WW whitebox 240grs. Took a couple shots to get dialed in at 25 then moved to 50. At 50 as is gun groups right around an inch from an improvised rest. Not amazing but was never planning to shoot Fclass so we're in the ballpark. Report and recoil are certainly present but not horrible. Fit and finish of gun is fine for intended use.

    Would like to see a little better accuracy with handloads which doesn't seem unreasonable.

    As I don't cast yet was thinking about buying some 240, 265, 300 boolits to get started and when I see results I like get a mould to start pouring my own.

    Thoughts?

  3. #23
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    Mattri, a suggestion and explanation follow:

    You can shoot any of the bullets listed in your last post reasonably well and any velocity you choose within reason. What you will find however is that typical design .44 bullets with a wide meplate or large hollow point/cavity nose form require significant velocity reduction below the speed of sound before they lose the sonic crack signature, and that is a very large part of the perceived sound footprint from such events.

    The reason is fairly simple, the explanation might be a bit confusing. I will strive to make it understandable.

    The fact that a bullet is at or on either side of the speed of sound is somewhat irrelevant to the point of it making the famous "crack" associated with high velocity loads. What is significant is the velocity of the air in the flow field around the bullet as it travels to its target.

    From an engineering perspective and one of practicality as well, air is a fluid and not compressible until its flow exceeds Mach 1. When this threshold is surpassed, a shock wave is formed in which the medium (air) is in fact compressed. It requires a great deal of energy to do this and explains why the highest region of aerodynamic drag is found at Mach 1.

    Visualize a bullet zipping along thru the air at 900 fps. Because the air is not compressible it accelerates as it moves around the nose of the bullet. How much it does so is largely defined by nose form. If it travels only a short relative distance the acceleration is mild. A longer distance, such as created by wide flat nose forms, prompts rapid acceleration in large magnitude. It is entirely possible, even likely, that a Hornady 300 grain JHP from a .44 Mag will promote supersonic flow at velocities at 1,000 fps or perhaps lower because the flow field requires abrupt acceleration to circumvent the angles and radius of that nose form. At this point, I'd say a picture is worth a thousand words.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    On the other hand, a sleeker or round nose projectile promotes less acceleration and allows one to tickle the Mach a little more closely.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You may recall from the picture I posted previously of the bullet used to shoot the targets that it is a round nose. It was designed specifically for subsonic shooting because the more typical style of bullets available in the market were a) making the crack at velocities a fair bit lower than Mach 1 and b) weren't particularly accurate at those velocities anyway.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  4. #24
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    Excellent write up, very informative. I'd like to get back to that in a bit but for now have another concern.

    Just slugged the bore, twice.

    Both slugs seem a little out of round, with a particular "high spot" that measures .4515".

    That seems incredibly large.

    I'm placing the slugs in the mic and turning them with my fingers, you can see the diameter go up and down as you hit lands/grooves but both definitely top out at .4515".

    Suggestions?

  5. #25
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    Something went off the rails somewhere, no way on earth.....

    How are you slugging and with what? How many grooves does the barrel have?
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  6. #26
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    Barrel has 6 grooves. Slugs were round lead balls tapped into bore and then driven through to breach, same as any slug. Nothing out of the ordinary at all. No undue pressure, hang ups etc.

  7. #27
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    You have a .45 Colt bore dimension in your .44 barrel. That can't be right. If it was, your 50-yard groups yesterday would have been measured in feet, not inches.

  8. #28
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    Agreed, and yet here we are.

  9. #29
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    Digital calibers.

  10. #30
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    Sure, which have measured multiple bullets accurately and consistently- so?

  11. #31
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    Well, even in today's modern times 1+1 does not equal 3. Puzzle to be sure.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  12. #32
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    Fair enough, guess we're back to ground zero. Will try a few factory cast boolits with various charges and go from there, results to be posted down the road.

  13. #33
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    Mattri, just for giggles, try slugging it from the breech end to muzzle. Most bores have a slight taper, generally in that direction.

    Or, you might consider a casting. I haven't got a clue how you wound up with the measurement you did, but something is out of whack on that.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  14. #34
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    I'm a big fan of the Keith style bullets. I also like the heavier for caliber choices. I'm thinking 255 Grain or more should be good.

  15. #35
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    The slugging results would really make one think that a 45 colt barrel blank was used.

    Heck, it could even be a "labeling error" of a 45 barrel. Can you measure cases that you have fired. I pulled some fired cases & got 0.455" for a 44 and 0.475" for a 45 colt.

    If it really is a 0.451" barrel with a 44 chamber, it is a "defective" product. It could easily be "fixed" by converting the gun to a 45 Colt, but that is not something and end user should ever have to do with a new gun.

    FYI, If for some reason you are suddenly desperately wanting 45 colt brass, I have a decent stash I am not currently using.

  16. #36
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    Good idea, will check some fired cases to see what they measure.

    Slugged the bore again from the breach forward, same results.

    Had a minute this afternoon so headed out back again and shot at 60 paces. Not exactly scientific but good results with the same WW whitebox.



    Not sure exactly what's up but obviously getting decent accuracy so going to move forward with 44 cal boolits, this is where I was thinking of starting:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...heck-box-of-50

  17. #37
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    Now I am confused to no end. Is the bore a .45 or .44? What is the gun chambered for?

  18. #38
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    Gun is chambered in 44 Mag, is labeled as such and has been shooting 44mag factory ammo.

    Upon slugging the barrel it became apparent that the bore was actually .4515".

    After slugging the barrel as indicated above 44 mag ammo was shot through it with acceptable accuracy.

    Going to proceed with 44 cal boolits.

  19. #39
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    It is really hard to believe that a boolit will rattle down that bore. Go back, slug again and make sure you read the micrometer correctly. No calipers. or zero them. They MUST be off.
    Looking at the edge of yours they are at 4 and a tad. They are NOT near .450".

  20. #40
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    I do not believe you would get decent accuracy at 60 paces without normal spin.

    Normal spin with 44 ammo fired in a 0.451" bore would mean lots of expansion at firing.

    Getting no leading and similar good accuracy with cast could be a challenge. For less extreme cases, I have read of guns that only shot cast bullets well when conditions were optimium for expansion at firing. This would involve heavier bullets, softer lead and/or stouter loads. Nowdays, there is also the option of coated bullets.

    The bullets you picked seemed right pricy for trying out. You might want to post for some kind of a swap to get a sample of heavy 44s from a forum member. I would offer but my only 44 mold is a 225 gr Lee. Again, it would be interseting to see how much expansion at firing you can get from a heavy, medium hardness, PC coated bullet and still get decent performance.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check