Vintage U.M.C. .45 Colt 28 gr cartridge recreation

[w30wcf]

This historic cartridge was introduced by U.M.C. in 1889 and was offered in addition to their standard 40 gr loading. It was intended to reduce recoil but still provide plenty of power.



Testing of original U.M.C. .45 Colt 40 gr. 45 Colt cartridges in both a peacemaker and 24" rifle indicated that the powder U.M.C. used had the ballistic strength of today's Olde Enysford FFG and Swiss FFG and that was a century ago!

So assuming that the same powder was used in the 28 gr loading, I tested 28 grs. by weight of Olde Enysford FFG and used a 1/8" wad to take up the powder space. U.M.C. would likely have used a 3/16" wad due to the larger case capacity of the balloon head case.

Average velocities were:
7 1/2 " barrel - 811 f.p.s.
.....24" barrel - 1,027 f.p.s.

I decided to test the 28 gr. cartridge in my Marlin Cowboy rifle for accuracy at 50 yards. Instead of the traditional 452190 bullet I decided to use the Accurate 45-260B which still follows the traditional 2 lube groove style but with the nose profile of another vintage rifle bullet ..... the 44-40.



I sure like recreating history.....

w30wcf

[M-Tecs]

I have always read that the old BP's had softer fouling than current powders. It would be very interesting to know the truth. History is very interesting.

[Don McDowell]

There was quite a number of different types of powder back in the day. It's almost folly to try and compare the extremely limited variety of powder we have today to what was available then. Fouling was a problem back in the day, and you see reference to it quite often when going thru the writings and loading instructions of the day. Hazard for instance offered 5 sizes in the Kentucky Rifle powder series, 6 in the Duck shooting series, and 6 Electric series, plus 3 trap, and 5 mining and blasting.
But I do believe that Eynsford is quite close to the Kentucky offered by Hazard in the 1880's.

[Gray Fox]

This is an interesting thread. It would seem that what was done was to create the ballistics of the .45 Schofield round in the .45 Colt case. The Schofield round was loaded with 27-28 grains if I recall. Also interesting is that this is the same basic performance level that was desired as the Colt 1911 was developed. I'll bet that that Accurate boolit loaded in .45 acp would give all the horsepower needed today at about 810 fps, too. Thanks for your interest and work on this piece of history. GF

[Grapeshot]

The reduced load for the .45 Colt as made by Frankfort Arsenal employed a 1/4 inch (.25 inch) cork wad between the 250/255 grain boolit in the full length .45 Colt Case. The Schofield round was loaded with 27 - 28 grains of gunpowder, (granulation unknown) and a 230 grain boolit. My research indicated that a 250 grain boolit was also loaded in the Schofield case as well.

[w30wcf]

Grapeshot,
Thank you for the additional, interesting info.

One thing I neglected to mention is that 28 grs. of standard Goex FFG produced inferior ballistics as compared to the powder that U.M.C. used which was pretty much equivalent to Swiss FFG and Olde Enysford FFG.

Here's the comparison.
....................Goex FFG / Olde E ; U.MC
7 1/2 " barrel - 714 f.p.s. / 811 f.p.s.
.....24" barrel - 910 f.p.s. / 1,027 f.p.s.

I am not knocking Goex FFG! Just showing the differences in ballistic strength between the powders. Also the original powder used by U.M.C. Like today's Olde Enysford & Swiss burned cleaner.

I have used a lot of Goex FFG and it works just fine with the "Big Lube" type bullets.

w30wcf

[Nobade]

I have been using BP loaded 45 ACP ammo in my USFA revolver since it hits to the point of aim and is a lot less violent than full 45 Colt loads. (Dual cylinder) But I am going to have to try loading the Colt cases like this to see how that works. Thanks for the inspiration to get off my butt and try it!

-Nobade

[w30wcf]

Nobade,
I found that a settled 28 gr. charge of Olde Ensford was a capacity load in Starline brass. In other words, there was no airspace and no compression. By using the 1/8" Circle Fly wad, 1/8" of compression was achieved.



One could always eliminate the wad and instead set the bullets deeper in the case to achieve the amount of compression one desires.
That may affect the functioning in some lever guns but not revolvers.

w30wcf

[Nobade]

Thanks John, that's a good tip. I didn't know Circle Fly made anything other than shotgun wads. As thick as those are, I'd sure rather buy them than make them! I'll post the results when I get some to play with.

-Nobade

[ironhead7544]

Black powder was much more refined back then. There was competition for business.

I also heard that black powder improves with age.

Great info as always.

[Grapeshot]

I have been using BP loaded 45 ACP ammo in my USFA revolver since it hits to the point of aim and is a lot less violent than full 45 Colt loads. (Dual cylinder) But I am going to have to try loading the Colt cases like this to see how that works. Thanks for the inspiration to get off my butt and try it! -Nobade

I think you will like the reduced load and cork wad in the .45 Colt case. I was really surprised at how pleasant and accurate that load shot after shooting a few matches with a compressed load of 40 grains, weighed, of GOEX 2Fg. I got my quarter inch cork wads from Circle Fly as well.

[superc]

That is interesting. My own research shows the US Army had several different loadings of .45 Colt over the years. The most obscure one of course is the variant they cooked up for the Philippine Constabulary 1902 pistols with a case shorter than the standard Colt case, but longer than that of the Schofield. I believe it used a 225 grain bullet. Those were shipped only to the Philippines and were never available in the US. I tried 40 grains of black powder (Goex) but in today's solid head cases I was doing good if I could fit 38 grains in under a hollow based bullet. I long ago backed off my charges in first generation Colts to 30 - 35 grain charges, but I did cobble up some knock-offs of the Philippine round for use in my own 1902. It should be noted that the rim diameter of the cartridge also changed several times in it's lifetime. In my 1902 and my first generation SAAs, if I use unaltered modern cases I often experience pierced primers. However, if I thin the rims down to more closely match the older bullets I don't get pierced primers.

[Good Cheer]

The Lyman hollow base .454 250 grain round nose might be fun for this.
Could figure a way to use the hollow base for lube to help keep fouling soft.
Adjust the base pin length to minimize the powder space.
Adding to my list of experiments!

[Savvy Jack]

This historic cartridge was introduced by U.M.C. in 1889 and was offered in addition to their standard 40 gr loading. It was intended to reduce recoil but still provide plenty of power.





w30wcf

John, I started refreshing my memory on the 45 Cartridges and how they worked their way into society. So with all that said it is my understanding that in 1873, at the 45 Colt SAA's conception for the military, Frankford Arsenal manufactured the copper case, Benet primer (Rimfire) 45 cartridge loaded with 30gr black powder and a 250gr bullet. The box was labeled.....simply "Colt's Revolver Cal 45". ONLY ONE YEAR LATER, after the Army ordered 3,000 S&W Schofields, Frankford Arsenal ceased production of the "Colt" cartridge and began manufacturing a shorter "Schofield" copper case, Benet primed 45 cal cartridge with a charge of 28gr of black powder and the 230gr bullet to fit both the Colt and the Schofield and named the "45 Government", HOWEVER, the ammo box was basically the same but the description simply said "Revolver Ball Cartridges" Cal 45. No mention of a name given at all to the cartridge thus understanding them possibly being called short and long colts. I guess one must understand this was a big change and you military guys know how the government works right? So once the 45 center fire cartridge case was introduced in 1882 (Copper Boxer Primer), the cases were still shorter than the original cases. From about 1889, the Copper cases were phased out of production and were replaced by tinned brass cases.....box still only labeled as "Revolver Ball Cartridges". So it looks like the military only used the longer cartridge ONLY ONE YEAR before using the SHORTER cartridge for another 15 years...........and that is not the end of the story.

http://www.oldammo.com/november14.htm

If I say the above correctly, my question is.........what ammo was offered to the civilian market before UMC in 1889? Did Frankford Arsenal sell ammo to the civilian marker or just the military (I think I know the answer to that one).

[Outpost75]

Great thread! Another bullet which has promise is Accurate 45-259EB, which I had Tom cut, based on the 43-230EB I had done for .44-40, simply increasing the diameter for .45 Colt. I wanted the slight bevel- base to ease seating in machine loading, and the large grease groove, based on John's blackpowder design, which has the benefit of increased seating depth and reducing free airspace when using smokeless powder in the .44 Magnum (43-230EB) or .45 Colt (45-259EB) using 7.2 grains of Bullseye for a full-charge load in either caliber, approximating the 40-grain blackpowder velocity. And of course there is adequate lube capacity for black powder in the .45 Colt or .44-40, when desired. I'm tempted to try BP in the .44 Magnum, simply because I can...

Attachment 173402

[Savvy Jack]

I'm tempted to try BP in the .44 Magnum, simply because I can...

Call it the 44-50?

[Nobade]

Call it the 44-50?

44 American Extra Long.

-Nobade

[Outpost75]

Call it the 44-50?

In modern brass more like the 43-33-230

[KCSO]

According to Ned Roberts he shot his Winchester 73 in 44-40 125 shots without cleaning using Curtis and Harvey black. In my article for NCOWS a few years ago I did the field test of the new Marlin Cowboy in 45 Colt and used 30 grains of FFg in different brands and at that time none of them would go more than 15-20 shots without fouling out. Right now I am using Schutzen in my Yellowboy and getting good results out to 20 rounds before I use my pull through.

In 1985 I tested all the powders I could get to try and duplicate Ned's results and couldn't make the grade. I was surprised to find that Dupont powder left a crustier fouling than the more modern GOEX and don't ever try Scottish Meteor powder as it is really crud, I have made better in the basement.

[Washington1331]

I must be a glutton for punishment. I load mine with 40 grains of 3F GOEX. I compress the powder and then plop a over powder wad, and a felt wad, lubed with a 40% bees wax 60% tallow mix. I then top it off with a soft cast lee 255 grain boolit.

I havent chrono'd it yet, but boy, you need to hang on. I've found that the lubed felt wad really helps on cutting the fouling.

Ive just recently poured a bunch of dick dastardly big lube boolits but haven't been able to get to the range to test them out.

If if you want an eye opener, try it as old Sam Colt intended!