Lyman 358495 vs 358091 loading them with Unique for defense?

[SquidBilly]

The only differences I can gather between the 2 is the that the 091 has a bevel base and 2 crimp grooves. From the data I can find they both seem to sit about the same OAL and they weigh the same. I ask because I can only find the 091 from a manufacturer, but i'd like to use the data from my Lyman 41 and 1973 cast handbook that only shows data for the 495. I'd like a good defense load for my 442 and I like the idea of a wadcutter for all around hiking use.

My Lyman 2014 data shows max charge of 4.2gr of Unique behind the 091 at about 14,000 cup. But the Lyman 73 has a max of 5.0gr Unique behind the 495 at 15,600 and the 41st Lyman shows 5.2 as max with no pressure data I can find. Working with a +p revolver and 1 x 5 shots I'd like to work up to somewhere about 4.5 or 4.6gr if possible.

Any insight is appreciated.

[Treeman]

The button nosed wadcutters are cool because they have a crimp groove positioned to give a seating depth equal to the standard 158 grain bullet in 38 special and have similar bearing surface......so it is easy to boost their velocities beyond target loads without wandering in the wilderness too much. I load the 358 432 with 4.8 grains of Unique just like I do standard 158-160 boolits. Your 358 495 puts less outside the case but it is also lighter in weight so I have little doubt that all of the old Lyman data is perfectly safe but the 5.2grain load is probably Plus p

[Hardcast416taylor]

I have used both of these molds over the years and settled on the 495. I cannot begin to think how many thousands I have made of them using 2 Lyman 4 hole molds. Never was crazy over the bevel base mold as there always was a lube mess when I sized them. I only lubed the bottom groove with C. Red lube when using a 3.5 gr. target load of either HP-38 or Win. 231 in my S&W 14.Robert

[35remington]

Try as I might I cannot get typical 148 gr WC's to approximate 158 SWC or RN seating depth......I measure them as deeper in the case. Since case capacities differ loading data cannot interchange.

About 4.5-4.6 grains will be Plus P and is a decent place to be for your purposes. Modern pressure measuring equipment is better than that used in the past.

Practice loads should not be Plus P. Although rated for it the 442 is still aluminum.

[Treeman]

35remington, The 358432 I was referencing has a crimping groove positioned for seating at the same depth as typical 158 RN and SWC. It also has a reduced diameter nose. The 358 495 Squidbilly is talking about also has a button nose and crimp groove for seating the nose outside the case and only weighs 141 grains so it can utilize heavier charges than typical 148gr wadcutters. I was wrong however about the 5.2 Unique data he found being Plus p. I dug out some manuals. Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual shows 5.3 gr Unique as 16,700CUP. Likewise Lyman 47. Lyman 45 had a max charge of 6.8 grains Unique for 1295fps froma 6 inch revolver-No pressure data but THAT would be +P+ I'm sure .

[35remington]

I would be happy to take a picture showing the 358495 wadcutter is seated deeper than the 158 SWC or RN. My caution is still not to interchange data. That is similar to the wadcutter he has. The 358432 is not at all similar to the wadcutter he has. We do not need to confuse him speaking about a different bullet.

Most 140-148 grain "button nose" WCs seat deeper in the case than typical 158s.

The wadcutter he has should top out in the 4.6 grain +p vicinity, not 5.3. I would not advise that charge with a WC of his type. Especially in an aluminum snubby he owns.

The old Lyman suggestions have been superceded by more correct data. Their charges are no longer considered within standard or Plus P specs.

[SquidBilly]

Thanks to all for the help. I charged powder with a .5cc Lee dipper and got a grain weight of 4.3 everytime where the Lee VMD should give a charge of 4.6gr with the .5cc. However, I loaded them with the 4.3 charge and am happy with that. Should end up being be just what I need. I only really wanted to get these past 750fps out of my snubbie and hopefully they can do it.

[35remington]

That will get you there. From my own 638 I am running around 800 fps or a bit faster with that charge depending on which WC I am using. For practice there is no need to go over Lyman's standard pressure charge of 4.2 grains.

A 3.8 grain amount of Unique would give realistic practice and would be easy on the gun so a bit lighter yet approximating this charge would be advisable for ammo shot in quantity.

The Lee dippers always throw a bit lighter than the chart says as a safety parameter.