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Thread: Accuracy-Reliability in a new 1911 45ACP-Who does it best?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Colt series 70 Gold Cup National Match (The new ones) or a Les Baer.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    I would not place a moratorium against some common sense tuning since this greatly affects reliability, AND the ammo the pistol will feed. Or not.

    Of all the 1911s made in the last 20-30 years, the trend has been for manufacturers to do as little to the throat of the barrel as they can get away with. This includes Kimber, and even Lone Wolf if you ask for a cast boolit throat, you will get a longer section of .4515" freebore that STILL will not plunk a .452" boolit unless it's seated too deep.

    Pretty much going to be able to look in any of the production guns' barrels and see very little freebore, and I honestly cannot tell you or recommend which manufacturer might have a sufficient, and I might add properly SAAMI spec'd throat in the barrel. They just don't bother.

    For the record, the barrel in this photo is a stock Range Officer barrel on the left, and after throating on the right. Note the lack of any sense of what you could call a throat. This is typical, and they typically shoot lights out after throating, so I would not stand too heavily on having ZERO work done to a 1911, unless all you want to ever shoot is hardball.

    Yup my 45acp bbl on my springfield ro looked just like the one pictured above.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Never had any issues loading 230gr fmj's to 1.270" but I prefer the h&g #68's to the tried and true 1.250".
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Straight out of the box,no mods/exta parts or replacement parts/no tweeks/no throat work. 10-shot groups @50ft.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Now to springfield ro chambered in 9mm on the other hand came from the factory looking like this, a highly polished throat.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Again no mods/extra parts or replacement parts, box stock doing 10-shot groups @ 50ft.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Bought the ro in 45acp a couple of years ago, it shoots extremely well and everything I've fed it without issue. I did put a progressive spring in it when it was time for a spring change. Felt better about shooting soft target loads and +p+ loads in the same range session. Paid under $700 for the ro in 45acp, liked it enough I decided to buy another 1. This time chambered in 9mm. Paid $750 for that 9mm ro which was money well spent in my opinion. It also has run flawlessly while being more accurate than I can hold.

    Surprisingly enough that ro in 9mm coupled with a lyman 35870 hb bullet is a real eye opener. Put a 10# spring in the ro/9mm and did some 10-shot groups @50yds.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Not bad for stock $750 1911 with a $5 10# spring added to it.

    For what the op is asking out of a 1911, almost any brand out there will work. You want to start shooting bullseye, the list gets smaller real quick.

  3. #23
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    I'm going to give another vote for Kimber. An acquaintance ordered a Les Baer and when it arrived he ended up standing beside me on the line. My Kimber would hold the same group as his Les Bear and the Kimber was a Commander length pistol.

    Out of all of the 1911's I owned or shot, the Kimber stood out as the best "Out of the box" pistol. That was many years ago and I no longer play in the 1911 sandbox, so I can't comment on the current situation.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 03-13-2017 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    This month's American Handgunner magazine has an article by Massad Ayood entitled Long Distance Killer. Colt's got my vote.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    I'm going to give another vote for Kimber. An acquaintance order a Les Bear and when it arrived he ended up standing beside me on the line. My Kimber would hold the same group as his Les Bear and the Kimber was a Commander length pistol.

    Out of all of the 1911's I owned or shot, the Kimber stood out as the best "Out of the box" pistol. That was many years ago and I no longer play in the 1911 sandbox, so I can't comment on the current situation.
    Post #16 will explain that - your buddy may be a fine pistol shooter but it would appear that he wasn't capable of taking advantage of the Baer 1911 accuracy potential of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards - not to say that's bad, as not many people on this planet are capable of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards offhand, but there aren't many Kimber's in this world that will run will a Baer - my opinion of course.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ole 5 hole group View Post
    Post #16 will explain that - your buddy may be a fine pistol shooter but it would appear that he wasn't capable of taking advantage of the Baer 1911 accuracy potential of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards - not to say that's bad, as not many people on this planet are capable of shooting 3" groups at 50 yards offhand, but there aren't many Kimber's in this world that will run will a Baer - my opinion of course.
    Well it's anecdotal at best but we were both decent marksman. Truth be told, he was probably a little better than me.
    25 yards was the max distance you could shoot at that range and I did have the advantage of a little more trigger time with my pistol. I don't doubt the quality of a Les Baer pistol and I'm not claiming the Kimber will always outshoot a Les Baer but the Kimber's I've seen are very good for the money.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 03-13-2017 at 10:36 PM.

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold Buckeye357's Avatar
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    I had a Kimber Custom II didn't impress still have my two Colts though a newer 1991 and a 100 th anniversary model both are keepers. The new Colts are really well built and priced right.

  8. #28
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    I Vote Ruger this one runs right out of the box http://www.ruger-firearms.com/produc...eets/6708.html
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    The Colt's 1911 in the American Handgunner was an 80 yard shot.

  10. #30
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    25 yards fired from this gun:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    No tweaks, no add on parts. Open box, clean gun before first use, go to the range and have fun.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy bluelund79's Avatar
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    My Les Baer will fit that bill. I have a Series I Kimber, it's good too, but not nearly as nice as my LB, I have yet to find a Series II Kimber that will hold a candle to either. Surprisingly, my Springfield Armory Range Officer also fits that bill too. All three are much different price points. Have fun in your search.

  12. #32
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    Now that is a mighty fine 10-shot group. Back in the day there used to be a lot of Colt NM's running with the Clark's and other big names in the Custom circles. I went with Clark but got my **** handed to me more times than I care to remember by guys shooting Colt NM's out of the box. Wasn't so much the pistol, as those boys were just plain greaaat from the 50 yard line with those ponies.

    I have a hard time finding 5-rounds that really like playing together, so these days I pretty much just shoot 5-shot groups for bragging rights. With a few years under my belt shooting 1911's and having a Baer 1911 with the 1.5" option - these are examples of groups that can be expected from the 25 yard line from a solid rest - some youngsters can probably do as well off-hand but I'm old.

    I can shoot at or near 3" groups at 50 yards (5-shot) maybe 1 out of 3 or 4 groups shot with the larger groups usually running over 3" but under 4.5" from a solid rest. Occasionally I can shoot better if the stars and moon are aligned just right and Lady Luck takes kindly to my ways that day but that's not too often these days - but she kinda took a shine to me 40/45 years ago.

    Here's a couple groups from when I was developing a target load. I settled on 4.2 grains of N310 for accuracy, recovery time and comfort. 1911 Baers are mighty fine pistols for the money but unless you have the "need" or feel the "want" real bad, there are other 1911's for a lot less money that shoot just fine for the non-competitive shooter. Most guys don't have the time or money to be a serious competitive shooters anyway, so keeping 10-shots within a bushel basket at 50 yards is more than good enough offhand.

    That 2 hole group with the N320 load hasn't been duplicated - that 2nd shot didn't like the others and the 3rd,4th and 5th shots were practicing Zen, never to be repeated. Carry on.


    Attachment 190507Attachment 190508Attachment 190509Attachment 190510
    Last edited by ole 5 hole group; 03-14-2017 at 12:31 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Ole 5 hole group- That group was fired from a rest. I apologize for omitting that important fact!! I have several more targets similar to that one from doing load development with Ramshot Competition. The average for that Colt is under 2.5 inches for 10 shot groups during load development. I'm sure I could tighten things up with a new barrel bushing, but I decided to leave well enough alone.

    I have a Baer UTC without the 1.5 inch guarantee and it consistently outshoots the Colt with the same loads at 25 and 50 yards.

  14. #34
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    Try a Turkish made Regent. Budget priced good reviews.

  15. #35
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    The least expensive Les Baer is double what a Kimber or a Colt runs, triple what a Ruger or Springfield armory Runs, and nearly quadruple what a Rock Island Armory goes for. In fact The better, or at least higher end Baers cost more than most of the cars I've owned. There are 1911's for every taste and pocket book, but custom pistols aren't the same as off the shelf.
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  16. #36
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    I don't see why a Ruger or Remington wouldn't serve. Also my nephew bought a Taurus PT1911 that has everything we added to a Colt back in the day and it is super accurate & 100% with factory & handloads. People tease him about that Taurus till they shoot it.....

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub Pawpaw757's Avatar
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    I've got a Colt Gold Cup from the mid 70's. The barrel is worn out and it still shoots great. Can't wait to see how it does with a new barrel.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rintinglen View Post
    The least expensive Les Baer is double what a Kimber or a Colt runs, triple what a Ruger or Springfield armory Runs, and nearly quadruple what a Rock Island Armory goes for. In fact The better, or at least higher end Baers cost more than most of the cars I've owned. There are 1911's for every taste and pocket book, but custom pistols aren't the same as off the shelf.
    My UTC was not double what the Colt cost. Crazy John was selling Premier II pistols last year for $1,400.00. Baer is the best deal of the Semi-Custom makers (Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, etc) and a downright bargain compared to a full on Custom which can quickly climb up over $5,000.00.

    To answer the OP: A Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc will do what you want to do. I would buy American over one of the foreign guns out of principle.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
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    First on my list would be a 5" Wilson Combat and right next to it a 5" Les Baer.
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." Joe Heller

  20. #40
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    Aside from expensive, specialized custom and semi-custom guns that are in a different class of comparison, Colt remains the standard. That's not to imply it's always comparatively the best in every respect. Colt probably continues to retain a higher resale than the copies.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check