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Thread: Accuracy-Reliability in a new 1911 45ACP-Who does it best?

  1. #61
    Boolit Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    One point that has not been brought up yet is very few shooters use ammunition that is as accurate as the better 1911's.

  2. #62
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I don't know what the source of your 1911 problems have been, but my gut tells me that you or somebody else thought they could improve on the Browning design and ooops. That is where most of these problems come from. Take all this internet stuff about change this, replace this, modify that stuff with a very large grain of salt.


    I have a '44 production Colt, all original parts, finish mostly gone, bore frosty, rattles a bit when you shake it, that will keep a magazine of hardball in an eye-socket sized group at ten yards, and I'm not performing malfunction drills while I'm doing it.

    This notion that the 1911 needs to be an individually-tuned masterpiece of NASA clean-room CNC tolerances to shoot accurately, let alone function reliably, is one of my great firearm peeves. Use decent steel and build it to the blueprints, build its magazines to the blueprints, then learn not to need a match trigger as a crutch for poor grip and trigger technique, and the gun will deliver.

    I have more respect for the entry price point Rock Islands of my friends that I have played with than many of the outfits proclaiming "look at our shiny piece of art nouveau" because they're one of the few manufacturers that still properly grasp what the 1911 was FOR and what it was supposed to BE.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Any good 1911 should be 100% reliable after a short break end period. Any good 1911 should be well under your standards for accuracy.

    I can recommend to you that without question the Ruger R1911 will do what you want and far more. For the money it the best buy, made in American and by a company that will stand by their products.

    I have a pair of Colts and a Ruger and all three will do what you ask and better. Of the two, the Ruger costs less, and performs as well as the Colts. You should be able to get a Ruger for $600.00 plus or minus 50 bucks. A Colt will cost hundreds more and not shoot any better.

    Glen Fryxell bought a new Ruger a few months back and thinks it is great. He did have one bad mag, that he sent back to Ruger and they replaced it ASAP for free. My Ruger mags are all great.

    I just am not into high dollar 1911s. Hell, I have had Norincos that will do what you ask. I suspect that most of the imports will do what you ask. The closer to the original Browning design and specs the more reliable the pistol become. Lots of folks and manufactures all all sorts if stuff to the original design. Most of it is marketing without any real benefit and sometimes induces problems. John Browning was a mechanical genius and just leave it at that.

    I don't know what the source of your 1911 problems have been, but my gut tells me that you or somebody else thought they could improve on the Browning design and ooops. That is where most of these problems come from. Take all this internet stuff about change this, replace this, modify that stuff with a very large grain of salt.
    For the sake of information and not argument. I have been trying out a variety of 1911 style handguns at indoor ranges when they happen to have one available to rent or try out. None of these were what I would consider quality guns. As far as I know, none of them were modified but since they are by definition, used, I can't vouch for that. I only know I didn't do it to any of them.
    All were fired with factory new hardball so as to reduce or eliminate problems with feed and function. Many had feed problems anyway. Others had accuracy issues. Some had both. I don't know why.
    None of them were high dollar guns. I suspect the establishment owners didn't want to expose their better quality guns to people they weren't sure would handle them properly.
    I can't say I am an expert semi auto shooter. I don't have any experience with them other than my Beretta 92FS. I don't have feed or accuracy problems with it and I don't have accuracy issues with my revolvers. But I am thinking about a 45ACP and I like the design of the 1911.
    I don't want to modify a handgun to make it work. From what has been said here, I shouldn't need to. I am not and most likely will never be a good enough shot to even consider the super accurate custom guns. I can do well enough to shoot the groups I asked about in my original post. That level of accuracy in addition to reliability would serve my needs quite well.
    Please keep the advice and suggestions coming gentlemen. I am learning a lot here.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    Colt, Springfield, Kimber, or something else American. All 3 offer options in several different price ranges, will meet your requirements, and offer outstanding customer service.

    I'd look to getting a model with a beaver tail grip safety for comfort. I don't need a beavertail since I tend to hold lower on my non-beavertail guns, but just something to consider.

  5. #65
    Boolit Master

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    I found three of the CZ 1911A1 pistols on Gunbroker under $1k, one is $875 with free shipping all three NIB. If I was in the market for another 1911A1, THIS one would be my choice.

    These are 100% made in USA pistols, with a match grade SS barrel, forged frame and forged slide, with what CZ says is an "improved" slide to frame fit, they are very well made and one of the better WWII style 1911A1 pistols that I have seen. Colt and Springfield both made their 1911A1 copies and they aren't anywhere near as authentic as the CZ. How do you improve on one of the best designs ever made? CZ did it with better slide to frame fit, a better barrel, and they designed their model with an easily changeable dovetail front sight.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 03-19-2017 at 11:25 AM.
    Got a .22 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
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    Ok, enough said. I inherited a Rand from my dad when he passed away. He said it was just a (rack gun) not accurate at all at distance. Had a big, too big for me plastic thumb-rest grips on it. But that's the way it's staying. I can put 6 holes in 8 and 9 ring at 25 yards with it. There's always a flyer. This is a gun that is at least 50 years old. So I guess what I'm saying is enough with high dollar guns being the only ones being accurate and reliable.


    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  7. #67
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    For the sake of information and not argument. I have been trying out a variety of 1911 style handguns at indoor ranges when they happen to have one available to rent or try out. None of these were what I would consider quality guns. As far as I know, none of them were modified but since they are by definition, used, I can't vouch for that. I only know I didn't do it to any of them.
    All were fired with factory new hardball so as to reduce or eliminate problems with feed and function. Many had feed problems anyway. Others had accuracy issues. Some had both. I don't know why.
    None of them were high dollar guns. I suspect the establishment owners didn't want to expose their better quality guns to people they weren't sure would handle them properly.
    I can't say I am an expert semi auto shooter. I don't have any experience with them other than my Beretta 92FS. I don't have feed or accuracy problems with it and I don't have accuracy issues with my revolvers. But I am thinking about a 45ACP and I like the design of the 1911.
    I don't want to modify a handgun to make it work. From what has been said here, I shouldn't need to. I am not and most likely will never be a good enough shot to even consider the super accurate custom guns. I can do well enough to shoot the groups I asked about in my original post. That level of accuracy in addition to reliability would serve my needs quite well.
    Please keep the advice and suggestions coming gentlemen. I am learning a lot here.
    I have never shot a rental gun, but have inspected a few. They are not cleaned and lubricated and often worn in one way or another. Throw in a junk magazine or one that has been ejected on a hard surface a few times and you have a recipe for what you experienced.

    The original Browning design, if followed to the letter, is a very reliable design. A clean, properly lubricated, 1911 with quality ammo and good magazine will be 100% reliable and keep all its shots in 2 to 3 inches at 25 yards. Tightly fit match pistols will of course do much better.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDROB View Post
    Ok, enough said. I inherited a Rand from my dad when he passed away. He said it was just a (rack gun) not accurate at all at distance. Had a big, too big for me plastic thumb-rest grips on it. But that's the way it's staying. I can put 6 holes in 8 and 9 ring at 25 yards with it. There's always a flyer. This is a gun that is at least 50 years old. So I guess what I'm saying is enough with high dollar guns being the only ones being accurate and reliable.


    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    Is your flier always the first or last round? First round fliers are fairly common with some semi-autos. For some the pistol slide does not 'reset' to the same place as it does when firing.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    I don't remember. I will have to bring it out first trip to range. And put a few rounds through her. Haven't been using it much because of her age. Want to be able to give it to my son in working order.
    Funny the more I think about it. I'm past 50 and I know my father had it before I was born.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  10. #70
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Funny thing today, I was heading out to try a new load of 200 SWCs in my new Ruger 1911 Commander that I traded in a few items for. You might remember that Commander/Officers thread from 1 or two months ago. My daughter is sitting around looking bored so I says do you want to try a couple shots? And to my surprise she said yes after a quick no. She's pretty green about it so we went through safety, sight picture, focus on the front sight. Grip hand and supporting hand. I grabbed some light shooting 185 grain loads and after a couple shots she is on target shooting a 1911 with a empty mag.

    She seemed okay with what she learned with it so I tried the 200 SWC load. This load wasn't right and probably too long but she got to see several FTFs and learned what to do with a stoppage and the unload procedure. LOL...keep pointed in safe direction, drop the mag pull the slide eject the round. Drop the mag pull the slide eject the round. It really could not have happened at a better time.

    I was using a Colt mag in the Ruger and took the last 4 out of the Colt mag and put them in a Ruger 1911 mag and they went through fine so my daughter even got to see what trying a different magazine can do. So in about 25 minutes she saw one go from good to bad and good again.

    To me a good 1911 is built a little loose and has good magazines that are reliable. I have a couple Wilson 10 round mags and they seem to work good in a couple 1911s.
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  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDROB View Post
    I don't remember. I will have to bring it out first trip to range. And put a few rounds through her. Haven't been using it much because of her age. Want to be able to give it to my son in working order.
    Funny the more I think about it. I'm past 50 and I know my father had it before I was born.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    Not old enough to worry about, the gun that is. Mine was my grandfather's from WWI era. Has had many thousands of rounds through it and still shoots fine today. My grandfather even saved a stash of spare parts for it, including a couple of barrels. We are on the last barrel (third one). Still don't see any reason not to keep shooting it. I did save the original magazine for it cause it still had the lanyard loop on it. Fed with GI surplus mags these days.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Not old enough to worry about, the gun that is. Mine was my grandfather's from WWI era. Has had many thousands of rounds through it and still shoots fine today. My grandfather even saved a stash of spare parts for it, including a couple of barrels. We are on the last barrel (third one). Still don't see any reason not to keep shooting it. I did save the original magazine for it cause it still had the lanyard loop on it. Fed with GI surplus mags these days.
    I can think of one reason to stop shooting cherished heirloom 1911s made before 1947. Colt and WWII contractors could not hardened the slide without warping it, so they spot hardened the front 1/3 and the slide lock notch. The barrel recess lugs in the top of the slide were not hardened and that is where serious wear happens.

    Starting in 1947 Colt started making "hard slides" that were entirely hardened. In the early 50's Colt started making replacement slides for the US military as the others were getting in bad shape. These replacement slides are marked 779013 on the left side.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
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    Mine has shown no issues with the slide and fitting to the 'new' barrels.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginia John View Post
    Wilson Combat
    Nighthawk Bill Wilson's former employees.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    The ones I own are STI,Fusion,CZ I like them all . My friend has a dessert eagle that he loves.

  16. #76
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    I found three of the CZ 1911A1 pistols on Gunbroker under $1k, one is $875 with free shipping all three NIB. If I was in the market for another 1911A1, THIS one would be my choice.

    These are 100% made in USA pistols, with a match grade SS barrel, forged frame and forged slide, with what CZ says is an "improved" slide to frame fit, they are very well made and one of the better WWII style 1911A1 pistols that I have seen. Colt and Springfield both made their 1911A1 copies and they aren't anywhere near as authentic as the CZ. How do you improve on one of the best designs ever made? CZ did it with better slide to frame fit, a better barrel, and they designed their model with an easily changeable dovetail front sight.
    Or for a little more money buy a Dan Wesson as they made the CZ 1911's.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I only have one 1911, and it was bought to look, feel as much like a real WWII GI Issue colt 45 as I could afford. The ones that were actually there, saw service were selling for 2k.

    Mine is a Springfield Armory, made in the mid 90's. Is bone stock, never been touched. Only shot and cleaned.

    It shoots. As long as ammo is in the correct dimensions it has zero problems. I paid 500$ for it new old stock, never fired.

    My father in law is a veteran, we were sitting one day talking, and I don't know why, he suddenly made some statement that rocked me. I had said something about Korea, and the Chosen Res trap.

    He proceeded to tell me this story.

    He was there running a D-6 cat in support of a rock crusher working on making gravel for an airstrip. He was returning to the gravel pit in a jeep, heard machine gun fire, heard bullets ripping into his jeep. Shoved his passenger out and bailed out himself. Jeep is torn to pieces and burns.

    He spent that night in a bunker of sorts. It seems he was the crack shot of his little group. So He stood on the firing step, running the .30 caliber air cooled machine gun. Which he fired at Chinese running up the hill until it ran away. Barrel was so hot rounds cooked off as the breech slammed them home. He says he burned out 2 the two barrels he had for that machine gun. Then it was Garand time.

    He had 2 guys running ammo for him. Once he switched to the Garand he had one guy sitting there loading M-bloc clips for him. He says in this matter of fact voice now quaking with age.

    "I burned up 6 M1 Garand rifles that night. Shot them until they caught fire"

    From what I can gather him and one other guy survived more or less intact. Everyone else in his little group was either dead or wounded. It seems they managed to finish the airfield and fly them out the next day.

    Roger my father in law was drafted right out of High School. He had no desire to be there.
    But he did what he had to do to survive. So when he expressed a wish, a desire to hold a GI issue 1911 again, well I did the best I could.

    On the day I saw him next he was sitting in his chair. I opened the case, took it out. Handed it to him. He sat there for at least 45 minutes. Fingers slowly feeling their way over the gun. Hefted it a few times. Had tears in his eyes a few times.

    It is my opinion that the gun was a key, a key which unlocked memories locked away in his mind for decades. Faces of old comrades in arms.

    I sat there and said nothing.

    Finally he looked at me and nodded. Ok, I'm done. He thanked me. Damm heavy ain't it?

    LOL, here, and handed him a fully loaded mag, stick that in there. Near doubles the weight.

    No he shook his head, don't tempt me.

    No I don't have the one he fired. Or one of the Garands he burned up.
    What I do have is Rogers Gun, and the story. His great grandchildren will hear it, when they are ready. We call it Rogers gun, and it is part of their inheritance. A gentle reminder to do what you must to survive to see the next dawn. And do it with as much class, integrity, and honesty as possible.

    I don't shoot it much or often. But it will do the job.

  18. #78
    Boolit Master


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    For a production gun that is as close to custom as you can get I don't think you can beat a Kimber. I have a few. I also have 1911's from others but when anyone shoots my 1911's, it's always my Kimbers they fall in love with. Price point is more than reasonable. Accurate and reliable out of the box. If you have several grand to spend then there are the top end customs. But I honestly don't think a Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat, or Les Baer will shoot any better than my Kimber Gold Match, at least not in my hands. And that is 1/3 the cost of the customs. I could buy a Wesson or Wilson or Baer, they are works of art. I just can't justify the cost when my Kimbers are SO sweet.
    Last edited by flyingrhino; 03-24-2017 at 07:17 AM.
    "A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, signed a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -- Author Unknown"

  19. #79
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I am narrowing down my selection to Springfield Range officer or a Kimber Custom II. I realize there are different versions of each of these and have not had the time to research them properly yet.
    Still looking for a range that has a rental I can try or some one local who has one I can borrow for a trial run.
    No big hurry. I still haven't been able to completely justify getting another caliber to reload other than the fact that I just want one.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I am narrowing down my selection to Springfield Range officer or a Kimber Custom II. I realize there are different versions of each of these and have not had the time to research them properly yet.
    Still looking for a range that has a rental I can try or some one local who has one I can borrow for a trial run.
    No big hurry. I still haven't been able to completely justify getting another caliber to reload other than the fact that I just want one.
    Good Choices on the two companies. Regards to having another caliber to reload for...............some may ask why and I say why not. Enjoy your time looking for that new 1911!

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check