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Thread: 58cal Model 1891 Zouve Ultra HI of Japan

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    58cal Model 1891 Zouve Ultra HI of Japan

    Bore looks good /barrel browned/aftermarket sight/even comes with ramrod handle! What is pictured is what you get,shipped to your door /UPS insured /P.P.(F+F) or USPMO $250.00 Attachment 190358Attachment 190359Attachment 190360Attachment 190361Attachment 190362Attachment 190363Attachment 190364Attachment 190365Attachment 190366Attachment 190367

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Edward - just to clarify - your rifle is not a "Model 1891". The 1891 on the barrel - and I can't tell if it is a 1891 or a 1897 - is a serial number stamped on it by the mfg.

    Your rifle is a copy of a 1863 Remington Rifled Musket - commonly referred to as a "Zouave Rifle" or "Remington Zouave Rifle". I've been shooting one and have owned several since the early 1960's. Good shooting rifled muskets.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master





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    I will take it! Pm on the way

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for your help ,it is I believe #1891 and I incorrectly stated model as that"s where I expected it to be found .I do not know a hole bunch about this gun other than it shoots really big balls(well)and seems to be in good shape ,probably came from DGW but being the second owner I have been known to make mistakes .My neighbors father (deceased) being the 1st shot it with homemade balls (mold constructed with plaster of Paris ) and supposedly killed stuff with it (according to son who always catches the biggest fish)

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Sold /thanks Geezer in NH

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I had a 58 Zouave--Lee makes a minie ball mold for these and it was the 1st cast boolits I ever shot--stout charge of
    FFF 130gns IIRC and minute of pop can at 100yds. Never hit paydirt(Elk) but that was my fault!

    Good luck GEEZER! good score.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    CHeatermk3 - 130 grains of 3F with a 58 caliber minie ball (Lee makes them and Lyman mold is a 575-213) is WAY OVERDOING it. With that charge, you can easily blow the skirt of the minie ball. Standard service load on a 58 caliber rifled musket was 60 grains of FFG and that was used by the Army the entire time the rifled musket was in service. The standard load will do 100 yards with no problem allowing for adjustment of POA to POI.

    You can use a patched round ball but the rifling is the standard 3 groove rifling intended for the minie ball. As far was using RB out of it . . . work you load up like you would with any rifle. The rifling is shallow compared to a standard RB rifled barrel (for civilian use). Use enough powder to get the job done but not so much as to waste it. Too many people feel the need to use way too much powder and what they don't realize is that it does nothing but blow unburned powder out the end of the barrel. More is not always better.

    GEEZER . . . you got a good rifle. Enjoy and have fun. I've put literally tens of thousands of rounds through my Zouave.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master





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    I have the 58 Minnie mold and will be casting some this week for it. I like between 50-60 grains 2fg, what ever the rifle will like.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    +++ to what's being said about powder charges.

    I believe Val Forgette made a "Hunter" model that used around 150 grains of 2F and tried to take a cape buffalo in Africa with it??? Don't remember his degree of success..

    I have a couple of those Zouaves made (both) by Antonio Zoli and one uses a .575" Minie whereas the other one takes a .580" Minie. Try using a too small Minie and you will not be sucessful beyond about 25 yards. In addition, accuracy in mine was improved greatly by glass bedding. This one actually uses a dovetailed in front sight and it is taller than mine so it won' t shoot a mile high looks like.

    About as much as I got away with was 65 grains of 2f equiv of Black MZ (about same as GOEX black). Have fun playing around. I'd say these are about the equivalent of a 20 or 16 gauge slug but may be wrong. Velocity is a little lower judging from what mine did (1100 fps tops) but the slug is pretty heavy.

    I just picked up a musketoon so will be fun to compare.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    60 grains was what I was told to start with and it was consistent with both patched round ball and minie ball. The round ball was much less lead and less weight but seemed to hit close to the same point as the minie did at that range with that load of powder. Reminds me I have a bunch of minie bullets to cast up with those borrowed molds!

    Lot of fun to shoot and pretty darn accurate with 60 grain FFG but high at 60 yards. Guess was notch in site not ever filed down to match this rifle but just had to aim low at 60 yards. Only problem I have is local public range limits to 50 caliber or less. Might even be 45 caliber. No big .58 calibers allowed, but shotguns are, go figure.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    No, Mr. Forgette used a special .58 cal Hawken Hunter with a very thick barrel. I have one. His load was 180 grains of 3F and a 610grn. Shiloh heavy slug. That load is stupid awful to shoot and frequently recocks the hammer. Lord help you if you aren't wearing shooting glasses when that happens. Musket cap frags go everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newtire View Post
    +++ to what's being said about powder charges.

    I believe Val Forgette made a "Hunter" model that used around 150 grains of 2F and tried to take a cape buffalo in Africa with it??? Don't remember his degree of success..

    I have a couple of those Zouaves made (both) by Antonio Zoli and one uses a .575" Minie whereas the other one takes a .580" Minie. Try using a too small Minie and you will not be sucessful beyond about 25 yards. In addition, accuracy in mine was improved greatly by glass bedding. This one actually uses a dovetailed in front sight and it is taller than mine so it won' t shoot a mile high looks like.

    About as much as I got away with was 65 grains of 2f equiv of Black MZ (about same as GOEX black). Have fun playing around. I'd say these are about the equivalent of a 20 or 16 gauge slug but may be wrong. Velocity is a little lower judging from what mine did (1100 fps tops) but the slug is pretty heavy.

    I just picked up a musketoon so will be fun to compare.
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  12. #12
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    A proper load for the Zouave is 60 grns. of 2F and a Lyman or Lee minne.
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by omgb View Post
    No, Mr. Forgette used a special .58 cal Hawken Hunter with a very thick barrel. I have one. His load was 180 grains of 3F and a 610grn. Shiloh heavy slug. That load is stupid awful to shoot and frequently recocks the hammer. Lord help you if you aren't wearing shooting glasses when that happens. Musket cap frags go everywhere.
    That's even crazier! Killed at both ends I bet.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check