454 casull advice.

[z28z34man]

My father just bought a 454 casull and is looking to have me reload some ammo for it. He is not looking for wrist snapping recoil but he has fired 500 Smith's before so he knows what recoil can be like.

He loves my 357 mag load of a zero 125 gr jsp with 21.4 gr of h110 seated to a oal of 1.575. he is looking for the sensation of shooting a slow burning Magnum powder on a grander scale. I am thinking a light for caliber bullet with a moderate change h110 will give him the sensation he is looking for without having too much recoil. What are your thoughts?

[nhyrum]

H110 is a good go to, vv n110 or vv n105 may be a little better. I have yet to get some, but I hear that's where they excel. Faster velocities, larger charges with the same pressure

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[Tatume]

Light for caliber is bad for H110. Moderate charge is bad for H110. Don't do either. Either one will cause bullets to be stuck in the bore. Moderate charges of H110 makes it a sure thing.

The 454 Casull can be loaded from mid-range to fairly substantial velocities with Alliant 2400.

It can also be loaded from light to mid-range with Unique.

Either 2400 or Unique can be used with light for caliber bullets (265 - 300 grains). H110 should be reserved for full-power loads, especially with bullets in the heavier portion of the range. Always use caution with H110, and keep loads stiff, within 95% of maximum.

[z28z34man]

I was thinking starting at 34 gr with this load

BULLET WEIGHT260 GR. FA JFP
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderH110
Bullet Diameter.452"
C.O.L.1.765"
Starting Load
Grains34.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,817
Pressure37,100 CUP
Maximum Load
Grains36.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,954
Pressure51,600 CUP

[Boolseye]

I'm confident the bullet will exit the bore. Use two hands.

[Tatume]

I'm confident the bullet will exit the bore. Use two hands.

Truly.

[44man]

Carry a brass rod and hammer. Pay attention to every trigger pull. We have stuck more starting loads up to near max then I care to count.
It is a surprise to see unburned powder packed behind a boolit in the bore.
It is the SR primer. Most will fire but I assure you, it will happen.
I wish starting loads were removed from manuals for the .454 with H110 and 296.
Cut down .460 brass with a LP mag primer cures it, allowing all listed loads to work although near max was more accurate.
2400 or Unique is best for the medium loads.

[dh2]

for me a target load for the 454 is Unique pushing a 265 gr cast flat point, I have worked with this load for two years now and been happy with it .
H110 and W296 has not shown to like cast boolit loads in this round

[Whiterabbit]

My father just bought a 454 casull and is looking to have me reload some ammo for it. He is not looking for wrist snapping recoil but he has fired 500 Smith's before so he knows what recoil can be like.

He loves my 357 mag load of a zero 125 gr jsp with 21.4 gr of h110 seated to a oal of 1.575. he is looking for the sensation of shooting a slow burning Magnum powder on a grander scale. I am thinking a light for caliber bullet with a moderate change h110 will give him the sensation he is looking for without having too much recoil. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts?

Exact opposite. Exact.

Heavy for caliber, just on the cusp of too heavy. 370 grains minimum. 396 CP great, 425 ranch dog ideal.

Slowest powder. If you can get away with a 4198 great. H110 works just fine, I suggest you download it till it's right. Please note, by download, I mean keep pushing the bullet down 'till it is sitting right on the powder. Right on down till the bullet meplat is near touching the case mouth.

Just enough crimp to remove the flare. No regard for crimp groove (because of the H110. no-air in case is more important)

The goal is to get "just enough" power out of it that no 45 colt in any ruger can touch it (otherwise why go to 454??). That will keep recoil down actually very far, and power up very high.

If you get any bullet jump (and I don't think you will) switch to a gas check bullet. Or jacketed. Both will give you enough tension not to slip without a heavy roll crimp. soft-lead plain base are highest risk to jump crimp. But slow bullets are less likely to move on you compared to a 200 grain FTX going 2000 fps.

-------

My credentials to opine: I do this in a 460 S&W and have very weak recoil in a very powerful case. I feel better-gunned with my 425's going 1430 fps than I do my 200 grain barnes going 2500+ fps. Recoil much better, the bark much MUCH better.

You want heavy shooting on a grand scale? Then you want heavy for cal, because you will get a rearward push (massive shove). If you go light for cal with H110, you get a wrist snappy muzzle-flipping fireball shooting load. the muzzle flash is impressive, but the wrist torquing gets old, and the steels don't clang as violently as they do with a 400 grain bullet going more slowly.

Did I mention heavy for cal is cast friendly, and doesn't require special thick-jacket bullets designed to withstand 60ksi without stripping out on the rifling? I just can't be bothered to pay a 30% markup on already pricey jacketed bullets just because regular jacketed bullets for 45 acp or 45 colt just aren't designed to handle 454 or even 450 bushmaster. Much less the 52 grains of H110 that fit in a 460S&W case.

[Whiterabbit]

Light for caliber is bad for H110. Moderate charge is bad for H110. Don't do either. Either one will cause bullets to be stuck in the bore. Moderate charges of H110 makes it a sure thing.

The 454 Casull can be loaded from mid-range to fairly substantial velocities with Alliant 2400.

It can also be loaded from light to mid-range with Unique.

Either 2400 or Unique can be used with light for caliber bullets (265 - 300 grains). H110 should be reserved for full-power loads, especially with bullets in the heavier portion of the range. Always use caution with H110, and keep loads stiff, within 95% of maximum.

Respectfully disagree. From a ton of experience. With respect to everything you suggest about H110. All of it.

Regarding a straightwall 45 caliber case, whether 45 colt, 454 casull, or a 460 S&W, the response is the same with H110. Simply put: if you have a 45 colt ruger-only load with a 300 grain bullet that uses 24 grains of H110 with an OAL of 1.7 inches (fake numbers), then if you load it all the same with a 454 case, you have the same ruger load. Just the case mouth is .1" farther up the bullet. You can do exactly the same in a 460 S&W case though it'll look goofy to have the bullet seated below case mouth!

Crimping in a groove is not needed as long as you pick a bullet heavy enough to have lots of shank. Engagement surface with the case keeps things in order nicely.

As for light for caliber, H110 is great for that. Massive fireball and warp-ridiculous bullet speed. 454 is made for it, so is 460 S&W. My 460 can go over 2500 fps with a barnes 200 grain XPB and 52 grains of H110. The fireball is absurd.

H110 is also great for heavy-for-cal. I've gone as high as 590 grains with H110, but I'm sure I can go higher. Just no point. I have no doubts 454 would do GREAT with a 400+ grain bullet with H110.

Finally, H110 is fine to download. If (and this is a critical if!) you put the bullet down on the powder, you are GTG. H110 is dangerous to download when there is air inside the case. The more, the worse off you are. Just a little bit, and you will squibb all over the place. Very dangerous! You can correct that by seating deeper. That let's you download as far as you want and get 100% reliable ignition. The cost of that is you can't
crimp in the crimp groove. This is not a problem if you have a mile of bearing surface (like you do for a 350+ grain 45 cal)

-----------------------

I made a simple tool to measure powder in cases.



bands are .100" apart exactly.



Sitting in a charged case. I now know exactly how far to seat the bullet to achieve 100% case-fill, 0% air in the case, and 0% powder compression. Exactly what you want for perfect performance from H110, every time. Regardless if you are using a low charge or a high charge of it.

I do always use magnum primers, but regular primers have only given me issues with AA#9 downloaded. Of course, that was back when I still thought I always had to use the crimp groove of a bullet. Now I know better.

[Tatume]

Sounds less like you disagree and more like you have found ways to overcome the difficulties and dangers. Good for you.

Nevertheless, if the OP does what he suggests doing, he will stick bullets in the bore.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree. I shoot reduced loads in most of my handguns. But the 454 isn't one of them. If you want near 454 power in a package that is easily downloaded a large frame single action or redhawk ruger in 45 colt is the way to go. I consider the 454 kind of like a Ferrari. Not the car to put around in. If you insist on doing it stick with powders like unique, herco, power pistol ect. DONT use 110,296,4227 or aa9 unless you use the upper end of the loading data. Bottom line is the 454 with its small rifle primer isn't used as it was originally designed. When it was in its infantcy it was loaded with duplex and triplex loads using a fast easy to light off powder next to the primer.

Carry a brass rod and hammer. Pay attention to every trigger pull. We have stuck more starting loads up to near max then I care to count.
It is a surprise to see unburned powder packed behind a boolit in the bore.
It is the SR primer. Most will fire but I assure you, it will happen.
I wish starting loads were removed from manuals for the .454 with H110 and 296.
Cut down .460 brass with a LP mag primer cures it, allowing all listed loads to work although near max was more accurate.
2400 or Unique is best for the medium loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

that's fine but its hardly a 454 with bullets seated that deap. You basically changed it into a 45 colt and will have to deal with very long bullet jumps from the cylinder to the throat which can effect accuracy. If I want a 45 colt I leave the 454 at home. Cant see making a 460 into a 454 either. At least with those two I can use a good cci 350 primer. Where did you get that 52 grain load with the 200 for your 460? If its not out of a manual or isn't pressure tested your kind of nuts to post it here. Hogdons manual says max load with a 200 is 46 grains.

Respectfully disagree. From a ton of experience. With respect to everything you suggest about H110. All of it.

Regarding a straightwall 45 caliber case, whether 45 colt, 454 casull, or a 460 S&W, the response is the same with H110. Simply put: if you have a 45 colt ruger-only load with a 300 grain bullet that uses 24 grains of H110 with an OAL of 1.7 inches (fake numbers), then if you load it all the same with a 454 case, you have the same ruger load. Just the case mouth is .1" farther up the bullet. You can do exactly the same in a 460 S&W case though it'll look goofy to have the bullet seated below case mouth!

Crimping in a groove is not needed as long as you pick a bullet heavy enough to have lots of shank. Engagement surface with the case keeps things in order nicely.

As for light for caliber, H110 is great for that. Massive fireball and warp-ridiculous bullet speed. 454 is made for it, so is 460 S&W. My 460 can go over 2500 fps with a barnes 200 grain XPB and 52 grains of H110. The fireball is absurd.

H110 is also great for heavy-for-cal. I've gone as high as 590 grains with H110, but I'm sure I can go higher. Just no point. I have no doubts 454 would do GREAT with a 400+ grain bullet with H110.

Finally, H110 is fine to download. If (and this is a critical if!) you put the bullet down on the powder, you are GTG. H110 is dangerous to download when there is air inside the case. The more, the worse off you are. Just a little bit, and you will squibb all over the place. Very dangerous! You can correct that by seating deeper. That let's you download as far as you want and get 100% reliable ignition. The cost of that is you can't
crimp in the crimp groove. This is not a problem if you have a mile of bearing surface (like you do for a 350+ grain 45 cal)

-----------------------

I made a simple tool to measure powder in cases.



bands are .100" apart exactly.



Sitting in a charged case. I now know exactly how far to seat the bullet to achieve 100% case-fill, 0% air in the case, and 0% powder compression. Exactly what you want for perfect performance from H110, every time. Regardless if you are using a low charge or a high charge of it.

I do always use magnum primers, but regular primers have only given me issues with AA#9 downloaded. Of course, that was back when I still thought I always had to use the crimp groove of a bullet. Now I know better.

[Love Life]

The Lee 45-255-RF, cast hard, over a stiff dose of 2400 was my favorite load. Fast, accurate, and hit pretty hard.

[z28z34man]

Sounds less like you disagree and more like you have found ways to overcome the difficulties and dangers. Good for you.

Nevertheless, if the OP does what he suggests doing, he will stick bullets in the bore.

I guess I should clarify what I mean. By light for caliber I was thinking 260gr ish not the lightest that data is available for but on the lower section. By moderate charge I meant sticking near the start charge from the data available.

My thought process was lighter bullets recoil less than heavy bullets both pushed equally hard. Also light bullets means more powder in the charge and more muzzle blast. Is my thought process wrong?

[Whiterabbit]

Nevertheless, if the OP does what he suggests doing, he will stick bullets in the bore.

Unless he pushes the bullet deep enough to sit on the powder.

Of course, since he is looking at light-for-cal, he will do nothing but create a ruger-only 45 colt, which IMO is silly. Just shoot a ruger 45 colt then!

That's why I suggest heavy-for-cal. Uses the 454 case and does something no 45 colt can. That's useful to take advantage of a 454 (otherwise what's the point?) while still giving advantages in shootability as well as downrange performance

[Whiterabbit]

that's fine but its hardly a 454 with bullets seated that deap. You basically changed it into a 45 colt and will have to deal with very long bullet jumps from the cylinder to the throat which can effect accuracy. If I want a 45 colt I leave the 454 at home. Cant see making a 460 into a 454 either. At least with those two I can use a good cci 350 primer. Where did you get that 52 grain load with the 200 for your 460? If its not out of a manual or isn't pressure tested your kind of nuts to post it here. Hogdons manual says max load with a 200 is 46 grains.

100% agree. If you are making a 454 out of a 460, it's silly. The gun weighs too much, just shoot a 454. Same with 454 and 45 colt.

That's why heavy-for-cal is great. You simply can't (for example) fit a 500 grain bullet easily in a 454. Makes a 460 worth it. While simultaneously using less powder, being more cast friendly, and hitting like a mack truck.

The load data is from Barnes and Hornady. Also, looks like Hodgdon revamped their data for 2016 or 2017, they used to also say 52 is a max load for the 200 grain FTX bullet. Note the hodgedon max is FAR under the 65ksi max for the 460 cartridge.

That's the other issue with 454 (and 460). at 65ksi, the pressure ceiling, most 45 cal bullets just can't handle the pressure and strip on the rifling. Jacketed isn't good enough, they were simply designed to handle 45 acp pressures. that's why you'll see right on the box, bullets designed for 460 and 454 will state specifically for use in those guns. With a price tag to match. That also likely explains the barnes 460 bullet recommended as such. bullet construction being less an issue when you are solid copper, letting barnes just worry about velocity needed to open the bullet up.

My recommendation is still the same. Heavy for cal, pushed hard enough to do better than a 45 colt ruger-only can do. That kind of down loading still makes a 454 worth shooting over a ruger, and provides more of the "shove" type recoil that is far easier to manage and enjoy while hitting like a mack truck down range, compared to the wrist snappiness fatiguing kind of recoil felt by using H110 with light for cal.

[bigdog454]

My favorite is a hard cast 255 gr fn. using either blue dot or herco. I've killed a couple of deer using the blue dot, loaded to 18 gr. as per alliant, around 1600fps out of my Puma 454. I had trouble with some powders not igniting properly until I changed to WW primers, no ignition problems since. I had killed six or so with mu ruger 454 SRH revolver using the same load. I see no use in a heavier bullet for W T deer or any animal of that size. That is just my personal preferance.
BD

[400short]

Be careful of light bullets with slow burning powders. Flame cutting of the top strap at the front end of the cylinder WILL occur rapidly. Ask me hoe I know. Also, as mentioned above, H110/W296 should not be downloaded due to a high probability of secondary detonation.

[454PB]

Yup, don't use the slow burning ball powders with light boolits, and if you do, follow 44man's advise.

I used a loading manual recommended load with 250 Gr. XTP bullets and AA#9 that produced hangfires on 70% of the rounds.

I use Bluedot for light boolit loads.