Garand 230 grain load

[Pirate69]

I have some 230 grain boolits left over from a 300 BO project and I wanted to see if I could get them to shoot respectively in a Garand. I worked-up two loads. All boolits were Gas Checked and sized to 0.309".

Load #1
Boolit: 230 gr., WW metal, PC and water quenched at 425F
Powder: 34.0 gr IMR4895 pulldown
0.7-1.0 gr Dacron filler

Load #2
Boolit: 230 gr., WW metal, air cooled and Lee Alox lubed
Powder: 34.0 gr IMR4895 pulldown
0.7-1.0 gr Dacron filler

I started with a clean barrel on the Garand. All the copper was chemically cleaned from the barrel and a scoped Garand was used to aid the shooter. All rounds were fired from a sand bagged benchrest at 50 yards from the target.

Looking at some formulas on determining optimum twist rates for a given boolit, I was lead to believe that the 1.37” boolit would be stablized by the 1 in 10” twist. Estimated the velocity of the loads to be around 1,800 fps. Purely aguess at this point.

Clip #1
Powder coated. All eight rounds in a 3”circle. Worked the action well. All cases landing between 12:30 and 3:30 about 7 feet from the receiver. Appears to be a hint of boolit yawing on the target. No indication of leading at the muzzle.

Clip #2
Alox coated. All eight rounds in a 5”circle. Worked the action well. All cases landing between 12:30 and 3:30 about 7 feet from the receiver. Yawing is pronounced but not quite a full broadside in some cases. No indication of leading at the muzzle. Lube star evident.

Clip #3
Powder coated. All eight rounds in a 3”circle. Worked the action well. All cases landing between 12:30 and 3:30 about 7 feet from the receiver. Appears to be a hint of boolit yawing on the target. No indication of leading at the muzzle.

Clip #4
Alox coated. All eight rounds in a 6”circle. Worked the action well. All cases landing between 12:30 and 3:30 about 7 feet from the receiver. Yawing is pronounced but not quite a full broadside in some cases. No indication of leading at the muzzle.Lube star evident.

It appears that the heat treated PC boolits perform better than the Alox coated boolits for this particular powder load; even though the PC groups are nothing to brag about. I am thinking the yawing indicates that I need to increase the velocity. Appears I still have a little velocity increase left with either PC or Alox boolits before leading.

Does anyone else have any experence with this boolit or see something that I am missing?

[Scharfschuetze]

It appears that the heat treated PC boolits perform better than the Alox coated boolits for this particular powder load; even though the PC groups are nothing to brag about. I am thinking the yawing indicates that I need to increase the velocity. Appears I still have a little velocity increase left with either PC or Alox boolits before leading.

Even the hint of yawing at 50 yards indicates an instability of the bullet as you surmise. The two options to fix that are a faster twist or higher velocity and of course the second option is the only one available to you.

I've never shot a 230 grain bullet from my Garands, but they are certainly happy with 200 to 210 grain cast bullets (Lyman 311299 or 311334) over 4895 or 4064.

Cases landing 7 feet from the rifle indicate a pretty high oprod and bolt velocity during function which is a result of gas pressure near the muzzle of the rifle at the gas port. I think that I be careful in working up to any higher velocities with this very heavy bullet in the M1 Garand in deference to the oprod.

Perhaps a vented gas plug would allow you to work up to adequate velocity with the 230 grain bullet without risking harm to your oprod.

[Pirate69]

Scharfschuetze,
Thanks for the comments. I was wondering about the pressures as well. However, I saw no indication of any flattening of the primers. Hard to know where the pressures are. Think I will go with an adjustable plug and see just how fast I can push the boolit before leading.

[Scharfschuetze]

Scharfschuetze,
Thanks for the comments. I was wondering about the pressures as well. However, I saw no indication of any flattening of the primers. Hard to know where the pressures are. Think I will go with an adjustable plug and see just how fast I can push the boolit before leading.

Pirate,

I bought my last adjustable plug at MidwayUSA on line.

Link:

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearc...temsPerPage=48

[Rich/WIS]

Issue is not chamber pressure where you would see signs of flat primer or case head expansion, but port pressure at the muzzle. You can exceed safe port pressure and damage an oprod with loads well within chamber pressure limits.

[Pirate69]

Found the following 2009 post from Crash Corrigan: "I used 35 gr of 4064 with a 225 gr 3111284 boolit and got 3 in groups at 50 yds. The M-1 functioned well and recoil was mild but due to the large case and little amount of powder there was a large difference in elevation but the left to right was tight."

Agrees somewhat with the 3" groups I was seeing. My load was 34 gr of IMR 4895 and 230 gr boolit. Makes me feel a little better about the pressure.

[curator]

Pirate69:

If you are using the Lee "phonograph needle" 230 grain boolit, the fault is the boolit. .309 diameter may be a bit too small. Additionally, the "bore-ride" section or nose may be undersize for your bore. I have two of these moulds and one casts a nose diameter of .3005" and drive band diameter of .310". The other has drive band diameter of .3095 and nose of .302. Of the two, the larger nose boolit has less yawing in my 1903 Springfield. A custom made 240 grain gas check mould (LBT) cut from a throat cast has drive bands of .311 and nose section of .303". Same gun, same loads (about 1250-1300 fps) the LBT boolit shoots easy 2" groups at 100 yards with no signs of instability. These shoot into about 4" out of my Garand with 32 grains of IMR4895. The "boat-tail" design of the Lee slug needs a lot more spin and larger diameter to shoot accurately

[Pirate69]

Thanks curator. The mold is a TL309-230-5R. Is that the "photograph needle"? It appears to have a boat-tail design. I have been running the boolits through a 0.309" sizer once they were GCed and coated. Without resizing after coating, they run about around 0.311" and the nose around 0.302+". Maybe shooting "as powder coated" may help.

I was thinking that I needed to increase velocity somewhat and that still may be the case. But you are getting 4" at 100 yds with 2 grains less of the same powder. Not sure how much to charge the next loads with the "as powder coated" dimensions. The additional velocity should not hurt unless I start to see a leading issue. We shall see. Have you had any concerns with port pressure with the heavy boolit and the 34 grains if IMR4895?

Pirate69:

If you are using the Lee "phonograph needle" 230 grain boolit, the fault is the boolit. .309 diameter may be a bit too small. Additionally, the "bore-ride" section or nose may be undersize for your bore. I have two of these moulds and one casts a nose diameter of .3005" and drive band diameter of .310". The other has drive band diameter of .3095 and nose of .302. Of the two, the larger nose boolit has less yawing in my 1903 Springfield. A custom made 240 grain gas check mould (LBT) cut from a throat cast has drive bands of .311 and nose section of .303". Same gun, same loads (about 1250-1300 fps) the LBT boolit shoots easy 2" groups at 100 yards with no signs of instability. These shoot into about 4" out of my Garand with 32 grains of IMR4895. The "boat-tail" design of the Lee slug needs a lot more spin and larger diameter to shoot accurately

[curator]

To put it bluntly; the pointy, boat-tail design sucks! I was able to tighten groups with the Lee boolit by squeezing a gas check on to the posterior but it was difficult to get them on straight and some obviously came off during flight. The Lee 230 TL5R looks good on paper but it needs low pressure subsonic, fast twist like 1 in 7" or 1 in 8" to shoot well. I have an Encore 10" .300-221 with 1 in 7 twist that shoots it quite well at slightly under 1000 fps.

[Pirate69]

I must have some additional issues as well as velocity. If you are getting stability at 1,000 fps with a 7" twist, the rotational velocity is about 103,000 rpm. With a 10" twist, I should be able to hit that rotational velocity at about 1,425 fps. I don't know what my velocity is with 34 grains of IMR4895 but I think it is greater than 1,425 fps. I may be wrong. It will be interesting to see how the group looks with a 1 grain powder increase.

To put it bluntly; the pointy, boat-tail design sucks! I was able to tighten groups with the Lee boolit by squeezing a gas check on to the posterior but it was difficult to get them on straight and some obviously came off during flight. The Lee 230 TL5R looks good on paper but it needs low pressure subsonic, fast twist like 1 in 7" or 1 in 8" to shoot well. I have an Encore 10" .300-221 with 1 in 7 twist that shoots it quite well at slightly under 1000 fps.

[Scharfschuetze]

What will your M1 Garand do with a proven load at 50 or 100 yards? Before deciding on how accurate your heavy bullet is, you should have a base line to compare it to.

My M1 Garands will sometimes shoot 10 shot groups of 2 MOA with cast bullets at 100 yards but on average they are 2 1/2 MOA with cast. My match conditioned Garand with jacketed 168 grain SMK bullets will often shoot 10 shot groups of 1 1/2 MOA at 200 yards and 2 MOA with the 311334 Lyman bullet of 198 grains.

A 3" group at 50 yards is roughly 6 MOA, and truth be known, most Garands in good shape will cut that in half as far as accuracy goes when fed good ammo.

Try shooting a load of proven performance and accuracy in the Garand before deciding if you are on the right track with the 230 grain projectile.

This is an interesting project. Please keep us informed of your progress.

[Tackleberry41]

I do not own a 30-06, but have used 230gr cast in my other 30 cal rifles. I tried the Lee 230gr, pure garbage. The NOE w flat base and gas check works great. It is shorter than the Lee.

More velocity may or may not fix anything, I can get that 230gr to work great at 1000fps out of a 1-9.5in twist mosin. Higher velocity, not so much. Still hit the target, but groups open up alot, 3" at 25yds, so unstable. I have gotten them up to 1900fps using jacketed data w PC. Lino PC coated in my 300 win mag, they were very accurate at 2500fps. Not found them to work very well in a 1-10 twist 308. Hard to believe that 1/2 of twist difference makes that big of a difference.

I am using bolt guns where I dont have to concern myself with port pressure.

[Pirate69]

I will try one more different load this weekend. If no joy, the rest will go into the lead pot.

[guicksylver]

The lead pot sounds like the right place for those to go...and I say that with a smile on my face ..here's why..you've taken on quite a challenge...hard bullets sized .309 in even a new Garand barrel would be undersized...being as hard as they are there would be no chance for them to obturate...that is to expand and plug the bore like a soft undersized bullet could do....believe it or not your choice of powder (4895) may be a little on the fast side for that deign ..if you have some try 4064 or even 4350...me I would get rid of the filler...

If you choose to remelt them try the opposite end of the bullet weights...I have gotten excellent results (well under 2MOA @ 100 yds)...with the lee 155-2R cast of 4-4-92 and sized .310 pushed with 30 grs H4895 out of my HRA ...mine IS loose and the spring is well worn so you may have to up the charge to get yours to function..

The 311 299 is the bullet for Garands ..but it is fun to try others ..and others DO work well

A nose of at least .302 also helps tremendously.

Sorry not much help in getting those bullets to work...but if you want to see what that particular design is capable of I would remelt ,soften, size at least .310 if not larger and try a slower powder.. oh ya loose the filler..Dan

[Pirate69]

The education continues. Let’s hope I learned something. Recent trials shot at 50 yards.

230 grain boolit,GC, sized 0.309”, water quenched from 400F, powder coated and 35.0 grains ofIMR4895 pulldown powder.
Previous loads at 34.0 grains IMR4895 showed yawing withoutvisual evidence of leading. Powderincrease was an attempt to gain stability.Shot 8 rounds.2.75” group.No indication of yawing.Streaking of leading observed near end ofmuzzle.Yawing at 34 grains and leadingat 35 grains.This load will not workfor me.Removed leading with ChoreBoy ona bore brush.
200 grain boolit,GC, sized 0.311”, air cooled, powder coated and 34.0 grains of IMR4895 pulldownpowder.
Cast from Lyman 314299 mold. First five shot group yielded a 2” group without evidence of leading.Four of five rounds were an 1” group.Second 5-shot group opened up to 3+”.Evidence of leading near the end of bore.Powder coating failed between 5 and 10rounds.Removed lead from the bore.
200 grain boolit,GC, sized 0.311”, air cooled, Lee Tumble Lubed and 34.0 grains of IMR4895pulldown powder.
This load had some surprises for me. First five shot group yielded a 4.75”group.Leading was evident. Removed leading.To verify what I was seeing, I shot the nextfive rounds with a ChoreBoy cleaning between each round.Yielded a 2.25” group.Lee Tumble Lubing was a failure from thestart.It was a heavy coating of lube onthe boolits.
Rifle Comparison
I had four rounds of the 200 grain boolit, GC, sized 0.311”,air cooled, powder coated and 34.0 grains of IMR4895 pulldown powder roundsleft. I shot them in a MOA proven SavageModel 110.Barrel had been chemically treatedto remove all the copper.First roundwas considered a barreling seasoning round and was not considered.The other three rounds yielded a 1.6”group.Appears the Garand group was notsignificantly larger than the Savage group.Garand not a big factor in group size.
Port Pressures
I was cautioned that the 230 grain boolit and 34 grain chargemay generate unacceptable port pressures. An adjustable gas plug was installed and adjusted during the 230 graingroup.Found the setting that would workthe action and then backed off one “click” to confirm that this was the minimumsetting for proper function.Would not functionat the backed-off setting and went back to the first setting.The200 grain loads were found to operate the action as well at the settingfor the 230 grain boolit.Backed-off oneclick and the action would not function.Appears not to be a lot of difference in port pressures between the two loads.
Conclusions
The 230 grain boolit will not work for me as has been impliedby other. Had to try.If I am going to shoot the 200 grainers withPC, I will need to find an acceptable powder charge below 34 grains.If I am going to try lubing again, I willneed something better than Lee Lube.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[Tackleberry41]

What sort of alloy are you using? I have been using lino powder coated and haven't had any issues at high velocity.

[Pirate69]

Wheel weights will some pewter added.

[Scharfschuetze]

200 grain boolit,GC, sized 0.311”, air cooled, powder coated and 34.0 grains of IMR4895 pulldownpowder.
Cast from Lyman 314299 mold. First five shot group yielded a 2” group without evidence of leading.Four of five rounds were an 1” group.Second 5-shot group opened up to 3+”.Evidence of leading near the end of bore.Powder coating failed between 5 and 10rounds.Removed lead from the bore.

Great report. Thanks for the data.

As I noted in a previous post, that 311299 is my favorite cast bullet in the M1 as well as all the 30 calibre US Military rifles. Interesting that the powder coating failed. I've always used the NRA Alox lube formula that can be obtained from Lyman or RCBS. While not the original Alox first developed, it works a treat and I've never had any leading in any of my M1 Garands using this lube with a hard air cooled bullet.

My favorite projectiles in the 30/06. The 311299 and the 311334, air cooled, Alox lube, .310" with gas checks.

[fatelvis]

It looks evident that .309" was too small for your rifle. I would stick with .310" or .311" with any boolit you choose to use.

[Pirate69]

I agree. A little humor. It appears I am becoming an expert at learning/confirming things what other people already know.

It looks evident that .309" was too small for your rifle. I would stick with .310" or .311" with any boolit you choose to use.