Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee Precision
Inline FabricationWisconsin TriggerStainLess Steel Media

Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Bullet Behavior Questions

  1. #1

    Bullet Behavior Questions

    I cast some 309-170 and 459-500-3R last week out of Lyman #2 alloy. Each design and batch has its own interesting quirks and issues.

    1. For 459-500-3R, this is quite a hard alloy for the application of this mold. My bullets are dropping out at about .460. If my bore is at about .458, could I still choose a load developing low pressure and could still avoid leading?
    After all, we are looking for a certain fit in the bore that minimizes gas cutting right? So technically, if the bullet's diameter is close to where you want to bump it, then bump it slightly with pressure, do you achieve a similar effect with a softer alloy and smaller diameter to maximize velocity and eliminate cutting?

    2. Same with the .309, these bullets are dropping out at .309 or below, could I use a higher pressure and velocity load to bump the tail to a larger diameter needed to seal the bore, even with a gas check?

    Am I asking the right questions? My guess is that these are the dynamics we are trying to mimic in our load development to control velocity and leading but I am not sure; its like we are just controlling the amount we bump our bullets to seal the bore.

    Or for short, could these two situations achieve a similar effect: small, soft bullet bumped a lot or slightly larger harder bullet bumped a little?

    shoe

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,788
    Always been better for me to make hard and fit better, over groove a few thou.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator


    runfiverun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    32,242
    your not really bumping anything unless you get an immediate pressure spike.[or a soft enough alloy with the spike]

    you want enough diameter to seal the barrel off from any gas pressure.
    but not so much diameter you damage the boolit getting it in the barrel.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Prineville, Oregon
    Posts
    49
    Fairly hard bullets that are a little over groove diameter for your rifles, gas checked. Perfect! You can load anything from mild to wild with no worries about leading. Hard bullets and light loads can get you leading in a revolver. Not in a rifle where you are already sealing the bore with the slightly oversized bullet.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    947
    Something you might try would be to install the gas check on your 30 caliber bullets with a .310" sizer. I know the sizer won't touch the bullet but it does leave the check a little larger and might help with eliminating any leading.
    Good Luck,
    Rick

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Peepels Republik of Nu Jork
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by RickinTN View Post
    Something you might try would be to install the gas check on your 30 caliber bullets with a .310" sizer. I know the sizer won't touch the bullet but it does leave the check a little larger and might help with eliminating any leading.
    Good Luck,
    Rick
    +1! This is exactly what I do, my boolits come out .310, I seat checks and lube in a .311 die and shoot them thru a .308 bore!
    "Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity.......and I'm not sure about the universe..........."

    Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,788
    Quote Originally Posted by centershot View Post
    +1! This is exactly what I do, my boolits come out .310, I seat checks and lube in a .311 die and shoot them thru a .308 bore!
    Darn, NO! As you seat the GC is larger and expands brass over boolit diameter that ruins tension. Never size a check larger then the boolit.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    947
    No it doesn't. The brass has ample springback to also hold the bullet. It actually works quite well. I think I would be correct in thinking that most people load cast bullets with too much neck tension anyway. .001 to .002 works well for me.
    Take care,
    Rick

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,788
    I was having trouble for a while until I found I was using a Lee die too large. Just to remove excess lube without sizing the lead. .432" die on a .430" boolit. Accuracy trouble went away with a .430" die. The check WAS expanding my brass. Reverse "M" die!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    947
    In that application it very well may have. I deal mostly with 30 caliber, and usually 30-30. Installing the check in a die .001" over bullet diameter works well and sufficient neck tension is retained. How many times the cases have been fired and how long it's been since they were annealed could also play a part.
    Take care all,
    Rick

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,788
    Quote Originally Posted by RickinTN View Post
    In that application it very well may have. I deal mostly with 30 caliber, and usually 30-30. Installing the check in a die .001" over bullet diameter works well and sufficient neck tension is retained. How many times the cases have been fired and how long it's been since they were annealed could also play a part.
    Take care all,
    Rick
    That may be because you don't have to deal with the revolver throats, jump and recoil movement. I might worry with a lever gun and a tube magazine.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    947
    I was thinking exactly the same thing after I wrote the post above. In a revolver basically you are sizing the bullet (in the cylinder throat) before it enters the throat proper of the barrel. In rifles we don't have to contend with this jump and sizing. I work with revolvers very little but I can see that in a revolver without the cylinder throats matched you could actually be firing 6 different sized bullets through the barrel. That could certainly play heck with accuracy and consistency!
    Take care all,
    Rick

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,257
    I have that 459-500gr mold, not seen any need for a specific alloy. Not like you will get a ton of velocity out of it to begin with. I use it subsonic in a H&R 45-70. More velocity I shift to a NOE 425gr/ 390gr w hollow points, powder coated it can be driven as hard as you care to fire it, 2200fps, but a bit hard on the shoulder for to many of them.

  14. #14
    Ah gotcha. So it's back to the same theme again with velocity and pressure. For any .308 Load, it seems like if I just stick with a harder alloy, I am okay at most speeds as long as I size .001 to even up to .003 above bore diameter (with a gas check of course)? Since with .45-70 I don't plan on pushing anything above 1500fps in a 405gr or 1200 in 500gr, I can use any alloy I want technically right?

    The former claim is subject to experimentation course and would yield some characteristic tailored to my rifle but I think it sound correct right?

    shoe

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,788
    The 45-70 is very forgiving and as long as pressures are kept in the BP range, you can shoot pure lead. Just see what you get.
    Now the Lee 459-500-3R was giving some problems at the BPCR shoots. The fellas found they were slumping. I never got mine to shoot right either but how they recovered the soft boolits to see is a mystery. Maybe the soft berm at 500 meters would not mash them.
    I found the old 500 gr gov't boolit still was right.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Living in Georgia but from Texas
    Posts
    173
    For your 30cal search beagling a mold on here that should drop them a little bigger and isn't a permanent alteration to the mold. Also try casting at a lower temp to prevent shrinkage.
    Last edited by sutherpride59; 03-18-2017 at 10:10 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check