StainLess Steel MediaWisconsin TriggerTitan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters Supply
Inline FabricationRotoMetals2Lee PrecisionGraf & Sons

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Getting Serious Now

  1. #1

    Getting Serious Now

    Hey fellas,

    So, I got a new repro 45-70 Roller and got to 'shake hands' with it shooting preliminary, trial smokeless loads. Now it's time to get serious!

    I'm shooting Goex FFg, 405gr. Boolit. I've watched YouTube. I notice the fellas don't seem to be using over-the-powder cards or grease cookies, and I could have sworn I've heard people recommending them in the past. Can you guys set me straight? Do you use them?

    I haven't reloaded with the Holy Black in a decade and just need a quick primer to get back in. Your two bits are appreciated.

    Cheers,

    GLP

  2. #2
    Boolit Man Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Buffalo WY
    Posts
    90
    The wads keep the base of the bullet from being scorched, easier powder compression and reduces the chances of leading, all which improves accuracy.Grease cookies are useful for keeping fouling soft to allow for easier chambering subsequent cartridges as well as easier fouling control, especially with bullets that have marginal lube capacity for long barrels.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    409
    Which rifle did you get? ... I use two bullets, the Lyman 457-193 that's "Beagled" and sized to .459 and a Hoch 459-500. The Lyman is supposed to be 405 grains and the Hoch is listed at 500 grains. With pure lead both will be a tad heavier. I've developed black and smokeless loads for both.
    When using black powder I found I have to do one of two things for best operation and accuracy so these are the procedures for target shooting. First, use a grease cooking AND blow between each shot. Second, skip the grease cooking and wipe between each shot. Accuracy with the second method is better at distances over 200 yards.
    When hunting I've only needed a second shot once. These cartridges are loaded with a grease cookie and the second round went in immediately and was shot. Distance was between 75 and 100 yards and the hit was where it counted.
    ALL black powder loads get an over-powder wad to aid in compressing the powder and protect the base of the bullet.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    rfd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    1,690
    you will want to use a thin wad or two 'tween compressed powder and seated bullet, to protect the bullet base.

    the short, condensed, quick version of one way to load for bpcr ...

    i would recommend using fire formed brass. this means the brass won't get worked much at all, no press is required and bullets just push into the case. if the cartridges you make are for hunting, you can always do a light press die crimp to keep the bullets from falling out. if not hunting, don't bother doing that.

    if you have new and unfired brass, you can simulate fire forming by using a .460 straight wall press die expander (from BACO) - use it once, never again on used and fire formed brass for that rifle chamber.

    what yer gonna figure out with loading black powder is an INITIAL good cartridge OAL and compressed powder charge. so first, make up a dummy round of empty unprimed brass and a seated bullet that'll be a "smidge" off the rifling lands.

    after getting that OAL dimension, make up a special test cartridge by priming that fire formed brass with a spent primer (for safety).

    take that special case, drop tube in about 70 grains of 1-1/2f or 2f bp - that drop tube will compact the powder. push in the wad of yer choice - i punch out my own and use 3 wads over the compacted powder, one milk carton and then two newsprint (to keep the main wad from sticking to the bullet base). you must use at least one wad.

    now compress the powder about 1/16" - yeah, a press mounted die works best for consistency, but a 3/8" OR 7/16" dowel marked on its side with regards to the case mouth will do. push in the bullet.

    is the OAL too long or too short? if the OAL is missed, start all over again - take out the bullet, wads and powder, drop fill the case with more or less powder. if need be, compress a bit more. do what it takes to hit the target OAL.

    build a buncha cartridges. go shoot on a good day. observe the results. make changes if need be, but one change at a time and test out at the range. what changes? bp charge weight, compression, granularity, compaction, compression, OAL, bullet, lube, wads, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. .... but that start load should be at least fairly good.

    do have have phun.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    9,129
    And your use of a grease cookie or not depends on the adequacy of the lube capacity of your boolit. After firing check your muzzle for a lube star - this means your boolit carries adequate lube and it is spinning off the boolit as it exits the muzzle. No lube star start thinking about grease cookies.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    6,728
    A lot depends on rifle and load what wads if any are needed. With duplication loads wads can cause a problem at times. With true Black powder a heavy wad protects the base of the bullet from damage. Wads can be purchased felt or vegetable fiber. Wads can be punched out with a press operated punch or a Wad punch in a drill press or with a hammer depending on punch. Materials to try are cork, LDPE, felt, Napa rubber fiber gasket material, Newspaper, tracing paper, and some others. I have been using the Napa rubber fiber material in .060 thickness cut to the dia of the inside dia of a fired case, plus .003-.005. I also use 2 tracing paper or newsprint wads on top of this. My loading procedure is prime cases, drop powder charge, Install rubber fiber wad and hand seat onto powder, compress to depth, add 2 tracing paper wads and handseat to heavy wad, hand seat bullet onto them. I lightly size the neck around the bullet to set neck tension. With Black Powder you want no airspace between powder wads or bullet and some compression can really help make the load consistant. Shoot for a velocity of 1150-1250 fps. The heavy wad protects the base of the bullet from the powder explosion and helps it swell more evenly. The paper wads insure a better release of the wads from the bullets base. If using a grease cookie I use a wad cut from playing cards over it to seal the cookie off. Playing cards are plastic coated and provide a good seal and keep lube from soaking past.

  7. #7
    Okay fellas, now just to make sure:

    Powder, card, wad, cookie...card?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    6,728
    My grease groove loads are Powder wad ( .060 rubber fiber) and 2 wads ( .002 tracing paper or newsprints) I only use the grease cookie under paper Patched bullets. Try with out most bullets carry enough lube if fouling is hard crusty dry feeling or you don't get a lube star on the muzzle that's greasy feeling then you might try adding a thin grease cookie between heavy wad and the tracing paper wads. I use either SPG or emmerts homemade lubes.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    rfd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    1,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy La Pourque View Post
    Okay fellas, now just to make sure:

    Powder, card, wad, cookie...card?
    maybe. more'n a few ways to do it. don't need a lube cookie if ya blow tube or wipe. just a thin wad or two gets more powder in the case, which is usually a good thing - cookies take away from the powder charge.

    what's really missing is you haven't posted yer shootin' intents ... hunting? target? silhouettes? plinkin?

  10. #10
    Why, ALL those, RFD!

    Right now all I'm shooting are store-bought 405 grainers. I used a heat gun to melt off the factory lube and then pan-lubed them at home for black powder. I don't have a blow tube yet, and would like to shoot maybe four or five before mopping the bore. (Is it even reasonable to expect any accuracy under those conditions?)

    So do you guys use felt wads? I have some .44 felt wads I used in my cap n' ball pistol... would they work?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


    rfd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    1,690
    for a blow tube, just use a foot length of 7/16" neo tubing. shove it in and blow.

    good ya lubed the bullets proper.

    never messed with greased felt wads, started with grease cookies and then realize what i was missing and dropped them like hot taters. thick wads and/or grease cookies lessen the powder charge. i'd rather use a few thin wads, a well lubed bullet, lotsa powder.

    actually, and i've dropped greasers in favor of paper patching.

    no matter what, you've got a buncha 'sperimentin' to do, hoss ... enjoy the journey.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master MaLar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    S,E, Idaho
    Posts
    268
    Do not confuse my being polite for weakness.
    Using Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Holy mackaral!!!!

    Bonanza!!! Thanks for the info fellas - got some readin' and thinkin' to do!!!

    See ya on the range...

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,265
    Yesterday we were practicing with the BPCR rifles, I was shooting a 40-65. Load was the RCBS 400gr. Sil bullet lubed with NASA, 60gr. Old "E" 2F, a newspaper wad to compress the powder, and a LDPE wad hand seated along with the bullet. Five shots into about 2 inches at 500M when the wind layed down, it seems to work well. Blow tubed between shots, it can keep going all day without having to wipe. You don't have to get fancy with wad stacks, just find what works and stick with it.

    -Nobade

  16. #16
    Boolit Master MaLar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    S,E, Idaho
    Posts
    268
    2" group at 500 meters?
    Do not confuse my being polite for weakness.
    Using Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,265
    Yep. Bet I couldn't do it again on demand either! But that rifle will usually hold a group about as big as your hand at that range if I get my wind calls spot on.

    -Nobade

  18. #18
    Boolit Master enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    635
    if you use a grease cookie ( I don't, I just blow tube ). don't try to compress the charge with the bullet and grease cookie or you will learn about hydraulics and what it can do to the case.

    hey, watch where ya point that thing!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    196
    I believe 2 inches at 500 meters. When you get your rifle and load working that is easily possible. I do it frequently, but not all the time. It is kind of humbling when you get to where it happens enough that you are not really surprised by it and know it is not an accident, and then it dawns on you that you, the shooter are the weak link in the equation.

  20. #20
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Lake Tapps, WA
    Posts
    116
    I prefer an .060 veggie wad (Walter's Wads)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check