Springer vs. Gas Cylinder Break BBL.

[35 shooter]

Those are fine looking rifles for sure Forrest r.

Okay, another question from the rookie here lol.
It seems the best type system for me since i would be hunting from time to time and would need it to be cocked and ready for an indefinite time period while hunting, would be a break bbl. gas piston, or pcp rifle.

But....can a pneumatic pump rifle like the Benjamin 392 or 397 be left pumped and ready in a hunting situation between shots without hurting the seals on it?

[Forrest r]

I have no idea why you think you need to be cocked all the time when hunting. I use that rws 45 quite a bit for hunting & will cock/load it when I see a squirrel. I've also left it cocked/loaded for hours with no issues when the shot never presented itself.

[nagantguy]

Late to the thread but don't get to caught up in the springer cocked loosing to much steam in a few hours, during our early spring late fall blue jay and starling invasion, I'm talking thousands we must live in some flyway congregation area I've left the springer cocked for days in the shed u tip I need to put it to use but against birds, squirrels and rabbits it's still up to the task inside 15 yards or so , just like with center fires and muzzle loaders raw power is a diminishing return game if noise and recoil cancel out good techniques and lots of practice, tiny little pellets kill when they are placed well, same as a 300 win mag a miss is a miss and a leg shot is a leg shot resulting in tracking and probable lost game, for garden pests that might not be a big deal, until a wood chuck goes under the garden shed to die and smells to high heavens and brings bugs and other pests! If I owned an air rifle that lost enough "juice" that it would no longer hit poa or be lethal to the small critters it's used for than it would go down the road real fast! I have various air rifles from cheaply cross and to Chinese rivers and a growing collection of bengiman Sheridans ,franklins and blue and sliver streaks and on and on, cock em, hunt little critters or bust cans and dirt close, re pack and refill as needed. I am no expert , have not used all kinds and so far can't afford a true big bore air rifle this is just my experience since 7 years old.

[Silverboolit]

35 shooter...You haven't mentioned what type of hunting you are planning on doing. If you are going small, as in rabbit and less, you don't need a big heavy rifle. The Brits are airgun crazy and do wonderful with their guns. they are limited to 12 fpe at the muzzle. YouTube is your friend with lots of hunting videos from birds to hogs to deer. PCP is fine in warm weather, however most leave something when the temps get colder.
There are so many rifles out there that looking is almost as fun as shooting them. Choose wisely, and you will have a blast!!

[35 shooter]

Silverboolit,

Squirrels and rabbits would be the main thing on the agenda for me. Your right about the research and looking part of all this, it has been a ton of fun.
I'm slowly getting the "field" narrowed down to three or four that i really like.

Forrest r and nagantguy,

Thanks for the info on leaving your springers cocked "sometimes" when hunting. Doing it occasionally when hunting without undue harm to the spring from folks experienced with them is the kind of info i've been after.

Forrest r, i would "prefer" to have it cocked and ready when hunting for the same reason i would when hunting with any other firearm...less time and movement and noise when a shot finally presents itself.
If several present themselves at once(as often happens), the first shot is ready for action.
After that, if any hang around, it would be a cock and shoot deal.

From the research i've done so far, it does seem the gas piston guns do hold up to leaving them cocked while hunting better than a springer.
I've pretty well decided on a gas piston type for hunting i think.

[Multigunner]

For multi pump, HPA or CO2 powered guns if you intend to leave the gun fully charged for hours or even days at a time I suggest you replace all the seals with duplicates made from Urethane.
When I rebuilt my 78g I used seals from Mac 1 Air Guns. These are made from Milspec 90 Durometer Urethane. I looked for reviews of the product first and found that one 78g owner after rebuilding with the Urethane seals had chrono'ed his gun then left it fully charged with CO2 for nine months then chrono'ed it again and found no loss in pressure or velocity. I expect these seals should hold up just as well for a fully pumped up rifle or a rifle on HPA.

Modern high quality springs shouldn't take a set after being carried cocked for a few hours at a time. Modern magazine springs which are a great deal lighter hold up to a magazine remaining fully loaded for months or years at a time.
Coil springs manufactured in some third world pesthole probably are no where near as durable.
One of Japan's first bolt action rifle designs based on a European design substituted a flat or V spring inside a hollow bolt knob for the coil spring in the original design simply because Asian factories of the era had not yet caught on to the techniques of mass producing reliable coil springs. The flat or V spring if broken or weakened could be replaced by any competent black smith.

[NyFirefighter357]

I've had my .177 cal. Beeman Webley Omega for about 30yrs. It's never been rebuilt has had 10's of thousands of pellets through it and still in strong and very accurate. I also have a .22 cal. RWS Diana, it came to me used but is also about the same age. I once took a red squirrel at 50yrds with my Beeman. I have also shot my buddy's new piston guns they are very loud, high speed creates sonic booms, I think your better off going larger caliber at lower speed. Beeman has been saying for a long time that the effects of breaking the sound barrier make the pellet very unstable. I've thought about having my Beeman rebuilt but I can buy a new piston rifle for what it would cost. I have also looked at the tank guns. Once again I'd go maybe .25 cal. and keep it under 1,100 fps. JMHO, Good luck, Jay

[35 shooter]

Thanks for the tip on the seals Multigunner.

NYFirefighter357,
I do want to stay sub sonic for the very reasons you mentioned, plus i want it as easy on the ears as i can get.
I've noticed in the videos that even with the "magnum" type airguns, it seems most are shooting heavy for cal. pellets in them to keep it subsonic, but still keep the fpe up.
That makes sense to me and is the way i'm leaning now. I've noticed in the 22 cal., it seems to me most are finding the best accuracy somewhere between 8 to 900 fps.

Lots of tips and good info and things to consider coming out in this thread.

[GhostHawk]

I have no problem leaving my Sheridan Blue streak cocked, loaded and pumped for an hour or two.

If it is not holding air then it is time to rebuild/replace seals or valves. You can still find Blue streaks in decent working condition for 150 to 200$ price range on gunbroker, etc.

I bought a spare 3 years ago, got it for 150$ and was tickled pink to get it. It was a decade newer than my mid 70's ol blue. But in very good condition, with no issues.

That being said when I did take ol blue away from the house I often cocked/loaded it. Gave it 2 pumps. Then if I saw rabbit/squirrel I could easily add one more pump and let fly.

But if it was just a bird I'd shoot with just the 2 pumps, less noise, less chance of a pellet going too far.

There are a couple of things about the streaks that it seems most people just don't quite get.
Every pump adds more power, but it changes the trajectory. Me I do all my target shooting with just 2 pumps, that is enough for 20 feet to 20 yards with good accuracy. Going up one pump for a live target does not change that much. But going up to 8 full pumps will.

I have never felt the need to pump it all the way up for every shot. In fact I would bet that I have shot it at full power against a living target less than a handful of times.

That last 4 pumps you are up against diminishing returns. I have seen the chrono shot strings for a Blue streak starting at 2 pumps. By 4 pumps the fps was over 500. By 8 pumps it got over 600.

As I remember 3 pumps was in the mid 400's and 3 pumps was in the 350's + area.

For a small target like a bird, cottontail, or squirrel head shot that is more than enough.

[Multigunner]

Most pump up guns are supposed to be left with one or two pumps worth of pressure in the valve if the gun is going to be left in storage or unused for any lengthy period of time. This is to prevent the seals from drying up and shrinking.

I recently re conditioned a very old 1377, the model with separate cocking knob and sliding sheet metal breech cover rather than a bolt, that would not pump up at all much less hold air due to having been left dry in a storage bin for many years. All that was required was to liberally lube the pump with ATF transmission fluid and work the pump a few times. Each time I pumped it up and let it sit for an hour the seals became tighter. Shortly it was pumping up and holding air overnight. Works good as new now.

[35 shooter]

I watched a video of a young man with a Benjamin 392 or 397(can't remember which now) running it across a chrono.
When he put 8 pumps in it, it was only varying + or - 1 fps. for the string.

I've never seen such small variances in vel. across a chrony before.
It's got to be a very accurate pellet rifle.

[Shooter6br]

Read Pyramid Airguns fot video of spring vs gas pros and cons

[GhostHawk]

35 shooter, I looked for 45 years to find an air rifle with more power, and as accurate as ol blue.

I shot a pin today. 1/4 inch measured round plastic headed push pin. At 20 feet. Confirmed zero was dead center, shooting where it is supposed to. Reloaded, took aim, pin vanished.

Yeah, thats fun. You could do thumb tanks vertically as well.

Ol blue would do it also, but it is harder with iron sights and old eyes.

Shot more than a few wings off fly's back when I was young. Barn spiders in the shadows at 15 yards can be fun.

I enjoy a little variety. With Air rifles if you shop a little, read a lot you can often get a lot for not a lot of cash. There are just a ton of accurate good rifles in the 150 to 300$ price range.

I suggest you do some reading here.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org

[35 shooter]

Thanks for the link GhostHawk. No matter if i pick one of the "more modern" air rifles or not, i think i may well wind up with a Benji 392 or 397 as well.

They're too cool to pass up.

[GhostHawk]

Shooter if I was not sitting on ol blue and his younger cousin 80's blue I would for sure own one or both.

I am however partial to the 5mm .20 caliber.

They are still available to be found. Guy in wisconsin this week found one of the old original prototypes still in shooting condition. I am sure it is old enough that it is worth thousands. But I doubt he will sell it. I'm not even sure he will try to restore it. I think that piece of history is a wall hanger.

The GTA site in its way also has a very good community. They do tend to be a bit younger, although some of us ol farts try to keep them settled down.

They are a lot like this place, they spend a lot of time, attention, and money on their passion.

[35 shooter]

I'm still researching all i can each night. Lately i've been reading all i could on the springers, and am impressed with the simplicity of the design.
I also found several hunting related reports from folks that use them a lot.
Several of those reports were on leaving them cocked for hunting, and that it was fine for a few hours at a time, just as some of the posts here have indicated. Some of these owners had been doing it for years while hunting with no spring related problems.

Considering the simple parts involved and the simplicity of the design, i believe i will go with a springer to start with at least.
I'll probably go ahead and make an adjustable compression jig before i even get a rifle, so if i have any problems, or just want to take it down to do a thorough cleaning and greasing of the parts, i'll be ready to do it.

I'm kind of leaning toward the Hatsan 95 in .22 right now. It would be easy enough to convert this one to gas piston if i ever wanted to.

[jh45gun]

Just buy a Hatsan Vortex gas ram gun. The Edges are great deals.

[35 shooter]

Just buy a Hatsan Vortex gas ram gun. The Edges are great deals.

Nothing wrong with that advice for sure. My brother really likes his Edge in 22 with the gas ram.

So far my picks are:
1. Hatsan 95 in .22 springer
2. Hatsan Edge in .22 gas ram
3. Umarex Octane in .22 gas ram
4. Benjamin Trail NP in .25 gas ram
5. Hatsan 135 in 25 gas ram
6. Diana 34 in 22 cal.
7. Hatsan 125th or 125 gas ram in .25 cal.
6. Diana 34 in .22 springer