Glock People - questions on 30SF & 30S 45 ACP & cast, etc.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm hoping some of you can answer a few questions as I am not a "Glock Person". I've never even shot one but have watched others shoot them and they seemed to be very accurate. I'm currently carrying either a Smith Model 36 snub J frame or a 9mm Shield. I have decided that I want to move up to a 45 ACP and want a little more capacity - I've narrowed it down to either a Glock 30SF or 30S - lots of good guns to choose from out there but I am pretty much narrowed down to and set on the Glock (at least today! ).

I have several questions - I may be "over thinking" or "over worried" but am curious about several things that I might encounter with a Glock?

Barrel - I'm aware that the 30s (45 ACP) have "octagonal rifling". I have read of many that shoot cast out of a OEM factory barrel and once in a while, run across a post that it is a "no no". I am aware that a Lone Wolf barrel can be purchased with standard rifling to change out for cast if desired - but - is it really necessary? What problems will come up if cast is shot from an OEM barrel?

My thinking is that when a copper jacketed bullet is sent down the tube, it is going to take just as much energy to conform it to octagonal rifling as it will to conform a lead boolit - if both are loaded in powder weights to cycle the pistol. Am I thinking wrong? Is leading going to be a problem or something else? And if lead can be used successfully, what are you sizing them at .451 or .452? I will add that i am pretty low tech and I normally cast from "range lead" so alloy can certainly vary I'm sure.

30SF or 30S - Glock's site lists width of both at 1.27" but I know that the 30S has the "slimmer slide" (same as on the 36?). Both are on the SF frame. The loaded weight of the 30SF is 33.71 ounces and the 30S is 30.36 ounces - a difference of 3 1/2 ounces give or take. I carry OWB and will be using a Fobus paddle holster. I realize the slimmer slide of the 30S would work better IWB - but both in MI and AZ, OWB works the best for me so as far as "holster fit and protrusion from the body thickness wise, both would be the same. (My Smith 36 protrudes further than the Glock will due to the size of the cylinder and I don't have "printing problems". BUT - will the 3 1/2 ounce difference make a noticeable difference in "felt recoil" or will it be fairly close?

Question on Brass - I reload 38s, 9mm, 45 Colt, etc. and I have laid in a supply of 45 ACP range brass that I purchased - 1,200 casings and mostly Winchester. I have always heard about the "Glock bulge" but since I didn't have one, was not concerned with it - my only concern was buying range brass and I have rarely ran across a "Glock round with a bulge". IF it is kosher to shoot lead out of it with the factory barrel, I would be working up a load as normal to the point where the gun cycles and shoots accurately - which I assume would be shy of maximum powder weight. (I'll be using Red Dot, Bulls Eye or Unique as that is what is on my shelf). Am I correct that if retrieved brass does have a "bulge" - it should be discarded and chalked up to the price of doing business with a Glock rather than FL sizing and reusing resulting in a possible weakened casing?

Boolits - If it will work fine with cast - suggestions for the best boolit weight? 200 gr or 230 gr? Design? I understand that they shoot pretty much anything other than a wadcutter load (that I heard on one video - failure to feed well). I like the traditional "ball round" but am not really set on that if another design works better. I have several molds for my 45 Colt that is in the 200 grain area but I think I would just buy a $20 Lee mold to get started and then proceed to a NOE or similar once I decide what works best. Do any of the Lee tumble lubed designs work well? (I tumble lube). Or, I may just purchase 500 PC'd commercial made lead boolits to get started. IF the OEM barrel can be used - .451 or .452? in the octagon rifling?

I have looked at the Lone Wolf site and the G30 barrels are listed as out of stock - several are available on flea bay but who knows how long they will last and I am not looking at purchasing the pistol for another month.

As I said . . . I may be "over thinking" or "over worrying" but not owning or being familiar with Glocks, I just want to get my "ducks in a row" before I purchase; Since I pretty much shoot cast all of the time, I am not aware if there is a major problem in shooting cast in a Glock in regards to increased pressure that could possibly do damage or destroy the pistol? "Carry rounds" will be a good SD commercial round.

Many thanks for advice and information and if I am missing anything, please advise.

Jim

[Catshooter]

Jim,

In our Pistol forum you will find a thread on shooting cast in Glocks. Lots of good info there.


Cat

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you Cat - somehow I missed that thread completely. I appreciate you steering me in the right direction - have started through it and will finish reading it all tomorrow.

Jim

[Shiloh]

Cast in 9mm, no issues for me. Cast in .40, Boomed a gun. New aftermarket barrel in the next one?? No issues. There is a guy at the range whoo shoots cast through a Glock 21 all the time.

Shiloh

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: Lets put a bunch of these suppositions to rest. First Glocks don't have Octagonal Rifling. .45 caliber Glocks have 8 lands and grooves, the rest have 6. The Lands are Radiused not square edged. Just like any other gun they shoot Lead boolits just fine as long as the boolits fit the barrel correctly. Correctly on a .45 cal. Glock barrel means sized to .452. Powder Coating eliminates most any other problems that could arise, but correctly sized and lubed boolits shoot just fine. I only use the 230 gr Round Nosed boolit from Lyman 452374 mould, and I PC them.

I also use only W231 in mine as I use it for all my Pistol cartridges and it meters really well in the D550B. Bullseye will work just as well.

Brass: don't worry about the brass. Pick up, clean it and run it thru your normal sizing die and load them. If you are loading on a progressive press then I tumble it first and use a Carbide sizing die. .45 ACP is not one of the cartridges affected by the "Dreaded Glock Bulge" you hear so much about. The .45 ACP is also one of the most forgiving rounds to reload there is due to the low pressure that it operates at.

My Glock 21SF has had exactly two Factory loaded rounds ran thru it. The rest have been my reloads using either Copper Plated or PC'd boolits. In fact I bought the gun because I had picked up so much .45 ACP Brass I could no longer ignore it.

As far as your choice of guns I can only submit that I have a G36 which only holds 6+1 rounds. I really like the gun and can hit with it fairly well. It has both the slim slide and frame. I got some Pearce Mag Extensions for all my Magazines so that I have a full grip on the gun. They allow me to have all four fingers of my support hand on the grip, as opposed to only having three, and it also supports the heel of my hand better. This is Personal Preference. I also have a Blade Tech Paddle Holster for the gun.

I live in CA so the only time I carry this gun is in my shop or at the range or at Front Sight. I can't really talk about protrusion of any of the other things you might be concerned about.

But what I can say is that you can't go wrong with any Glock. They are not really "guns," they are "tools" that launch boolits... And when looked at in that context,,, they are second to none.

Hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions.

Randy

[luky-dude]

pm sent

[fredj338]

As noted the rifling is polygon, no true lands & grooves as conventional rifling. I have shot 1000s of lead only loads in my 1st gen G17. Just clean the bbl more often. Most guys will tell you a SWC is a no go in the G36, I agree. Iffy in a G30 as well. SO feed it a RN or TC for best results. You can certainly after market bbl for piece of mind or just PC or HT coat.

[clum553946]

I carry both the 30 & 27. I also use the fobus paddle for the 30 which I carry during the winter. Being only 5'7" I carry the 27 in the summer as the 30 doesn't conceal well for me under a tank top. I have the KKM barrels for both that I can shoot cast bullets with, but actually practice with Xtreme copper plated hollow point bullets the same weight & velocities of my carry ammo. I use 231 for the 40 & WST for the 45. They're both surprisingly accurate. I've shot both in Steel Challenge in a backup gun category we have & did really well! The trigger didn't take long to get used to either as they're much better than the earlier generation's triggers. Hope this helps. Also, as stated before by WR Buchanan, there's no issue with the bulge in 45 acp as the pressure is lower & the base of the brass is pretty thick.

[45workhorse]

Which one "feels" best in your hand?
Will it do what you want, conceal easy......
Don't skimp on the holster, if it ain't comfortable you won't carry it.
Practice, practice, practice.

[AnthonyB]

I much prefer the 30S over the 30SF.
Tony

[44MAG#1]

So far my M30 Gen4 has not had a hiccup with the Saeco 058 SWC. with a 330" meplat and 215 gr weight.
Load them to 1.175" and with Power Pistol they do just fine.

[Tim357]

My observations with boolits of the swc design in a G30 are ungood. While the RCBS 200gr swc was plenty accurate, and they feed well, the empty case hangs up on the shoulder of the next cartridge in the magazine whilst being ejected. Lyman 452488 feeds like butter.

[Catshooter]

bedbugbilly,

You're welcome. Overlooking a thread is easy to do.

Some good replies here. But this bit: " Just like any other gun they shoot Lead boolits just fine as long as the boolits fit the barrel correctly. Correctly on a .45 cal. Glock barrel means sized to .452. " is not the case.

It's quite true that fit is King, but sometimes hardness can matter. I have found that my Glocks prefer not only as oversized as I can chamber, but they want hard too. Ten rounds will give me significant leading with air-cooled alloy. The same exact boolit but water-dropped gives me zero leading. The water-dropping will usually give me about 20 on the Brinell Hardness Scale. Air cooled is 12 with the same alloy.

As for .452 is all you need, I'd say maybe. Maybe not. Glocks are just like every other firearm in that they can be over or under sized too. As an example I have a Glock in 40 that measures .403. So the normal .001 over won't cut it.

Likewise, I've had a .45 that had a .4501 bore and wouldn't chamber anything much over .451.

So in my experience the only hard 'n fast rule in casting, loading & shooting is there aren't any hard 'n fast rules. I've had three G21s over the years and they would all feed, chamber & cycle with the classic Lyman Keith 452424 semi-wadcutter.

Good luck with yours.


Cat

[44MAG#1]

It's funny how people can have such widely different results. My Glock M30 Gen4 feeds that Saeco 058 fine. Not a bobble since I got above the light loads
This happens with everyone at times.
Someone will come on here with a question and will get very differing results and advice by many saying they have trouble with such and such gun and load and another will have nothing but praise for the same.
Same with bullet shape, weight and powders and loads.
Goes to prove. A person needs to put in the time doing his own testing in his own gun.. Then he/she will know instead of relying on other experiences which may or may not apply to his/her situation.

[bedbugbilly]

A big "thank you" to all that responded as it has been very helpful. Not being a "Glock person", it has cleared up a lot of mis-conceptions I had concerning them and while I may not drink the entire pitcher of the "Glock kool-aid", I am pretty well sold on the 30SF or 30S in regards to either one of them meeting what I want in a new carry gun.

44Mag#1 - I agree with you wholeheartedly about regardless of other's experiences, you still have to put the work in to it for your particular handgun. I primarily shot revolver for over 50 years and everyone I've owned, and I have quite a few, are different and like different things. My experience with center fire semi-auto has been pretty limited. I started with 9mm like most folks do - first I bought was a SR9 and it was an excellent shooter for my cast but I sold it when I got my 9mm Shield as I liked shooting the Shield so much that the SR9 didn't get much use.

My only previous experience with a 45ACP was with a Colt 1911A1 that I was given about 164 or so - it was pristine and had had been brought back from WWII by a Navy Pilot. I was a kid and I shot it some but with off the shelf ammo - and I wasn't a "marksman" by any means. I sold it a few years ago as it was truly a "collector's piece" along with the original holster, mags, mag pouch and pistol belt. Now, I wish I hadn't but at my age, it would have been sold at some point anyway so no regrets I can't live with.

I was one of those who didn't have much interest in the Glocks until I saw some being shot and started studying them a little, watching some "decent" reviews (i.e. those such as Hickock45, etc.) that give the positive and the negative. No handgun is "perfect" but my interest really got sparked when I saw how the frame had been changed on the 30 with the SF being available - i.e. not the grip that felt like a 2 X 4. I want to move to the 45ACP and a little higher capacity that I am now carrying for personal reasons and the 30 looks like it is just what I'm looking for - simple, reliable, accurate and above all . . . as mentioned . . . a good "tool". I have looked at other's of similar size, capacity, etc. but I keep going back to the Glock.

At any rate, it has helped to get the information that I was looking for and I appreciate other's sharing their experiences with the Glock rifling and lead boolits and especially the answers to my questions on the 45 ACP. Plus, it has shown me that I need to think more seriously about trying and getting my feet wet with PC as I think it would benefit in a lot of the other calibers I reload. Sometimes an old dog can learn new tricks!

Thanks!

Jim

[HeavyHev]

I would rent one from a range before you buy it. The grip angle is different enough that it sours people on the platform quite easily. If you like the way it points and feels (you can reach all the controls with relative ease), then I would say get yourself a new pistol.

As Catshooter mentioned, you will want to slug your barrel so you know what diameter you need. I ran into the same problem with him in that my G34 required a much harder alloy than expected. As close as 1 yard I was key-holing with range scrap alloy. Tossed in a mix of RotoMetals to harden it up and it now shoots as well as factory plated projectiles.

I wouldn't recommend going straight for a new barrel quite yet. I'd spend the money on ammo and a holster. I think you will be hard pressed to be a better shot than the OEM barrel can provide especially in a subcompact.

As for damaging the gun, in a low pressure cartridge coupled with the rock solid design of the Glock platform, you will be hard pressed to damage your gun. In fact, I would wager you would have to actively try.

[Tackleberry41]

I think alot of the issues that came with lead and glocks, is the overly hard, improperly sized, not very good lube ones being sold by various places. A barrel can lead up pretty quick under such conditions. Maybe that rifling contributes to the issue, and quickly there were kabooms. So not so knowledgable new loaders, big problem, in here where people know what they are doing cast in a glock is not an issue.

I have never seen the issue with glock bulge, I see it alot w 40 cal range brass. Never seen it being an issue, regular die takes it right out. And it was more of an issue with the older glocks with less case support.

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you fellas. I figured that I would need to slug the bore and usually do on any new handgun. As far as a new barrel, I would be waiting on that until I see how it shoots with the OEM barrel.

When I bought my Shield, I got it at a LGS that I have purchased from for years. The fellow that waited on me shoots IDPA at a nearby club and he knows I reload. We were discussing that "little" hobby and he showed me some PC'd boolits that they had just started to carry and he was having great success with them. I believe the company is SNS. He gave me a deal on a box of 500 RN 9mm to try - first PC'd I'd ever loaded and shot and I was really pleased with the results out of the 9mm - yep, I know - different rifling and different animal form a Glock but, I looked and they have several designs of 200 gr and 230g PC'd available in .452. The nice thing is that you can buy sample packs o 100 so I'm thinking I may buy an assortment of sample packs to try out in the Glock when I get it. If they don't work - I can always find someone on here who maybe could use them. "IF" I could fine one that works well out of the Glock, then I would probably just purchase 2 or 3 K of them which would last me quite while. If not - then move on and keep trying. I really have enough casting to do for my other cartridges that for this particular pistol, if I don't cast for it, it's not going to make me cry.

Thee is an indoor range up in Tucson that I have shot at a number of times and I am going to call them and see if they possibly have one that I could rent and run a couple of boxes of ammo through. I know a lot of folks have issues with the grip angle, etc. but I have learned over the years that I can pretty much adapt to things that may be a little different. I have a Ubdrti Bisley in 357 that I love (I love SAA revolvers). I have let others shoot it as a lot of folks never have held a Bisley. Just about all of them, when done shooting it, hand it back and say "How in the #$%$ can you shoot that thing? I jus smile and tell 'em . . . "you learn".

[Catshooter]

bedbug,

I got into Glocks in late '89. Have tried to use the 21/30 platform, but they are just too thick for my hands. I've been a 45 man for more than 40 years, but it was no go with Glock.

Sorta by accident I fell into a G37, the full size .45 GAP. Same frame as the 9/40, just the upper is bigger. They shoot very well, cast & reload just like an ACP. The G39 is the same size as the 26/27 but 45. Do love mine.

Just FYI. Good luck with whatever you get.


Cat

[35remington]

Given you already carry a Shield, is there some reason the Shield in .45 is not being considered?