357 Carbine for deer?

[sawinredneck]

How good a shot are you? Are you a good hunter? How is your range estimation?

Remember, that most people will not tell you about the deer they lost. but the ones they killed. One guy boasted about killing a deer at 250 yards or so with a .45 LC. That does not mean the .45 is 250 yard deer gun.

I have three .357 carbines and have never hunted deer with them...but I have better choices. If I had to use one, I would handload it with 125 gr Gold Dots or something similar with IMR 4227. That will give about 2000 FPS with published loads. A large deer here will be 175 lbs..we do not get many monsters

Just curious, why the jhp bullet instead of a jacketed soft point or the like? Two legged I'll go jhp every day, but a deer I want more penetration imho.

[54bore]

I will answer with a question. if the .357 out of a 4 or 6 inch barrel hand gun will drop a deer out to 100 yds why would a carbine in .357 not work better ?

In my opinion a carbine would be FAR and away better!

[Chihuahua Floyd]

for deer in the 357 I have used a 158g JHP because I did not have any JSP or cast loaded to 357 mag velocities. I personally think the 125 is light for deer. The 357 is good to go with a suitable bullet and knowing the limitations. I use it for woods hunting only, not for corn fields, for that I have a 30-06.
Limits for me are how far I can see in the woods I hunt, much less than 100 yards.
As always, never try to hunt further than you have punched paper. If you can not keep them in the black at X yards, don't try to hunt at X yards.
It is a suitable deer rifle if used within the limits ethical hunters impose upon themselves.
CF

[725]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

[centershot]

Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?.

+1!

[Sur-shot]

Over the years I have demonstrated to several very knowable shooters why they should never load a 357 mag lever gun like a revolver. In your 357 mag reloading data you really should have a handgun page and a separate rifle page because they really do load different. The little 357 carbine is a bad hombre with a big heavy bullet and a stout load. I prefer the RCBS 200 or 180 over a heavy crimped and compressed load of H-110 or 296 with a 205m or similar rifle primer. You set the OAL to clear a revolver cylinder, if you have one, so the cylinder when loaded just turns freely. At that point the loaded round will function through a lever gun action. The real important thing is that a loaded round ejects without being fired.
The thing the 357 carbines normally need is a new set of open sights because the front sight is real big, covers about a VW Bug at 100 yards. It is the reason I prefer a Marlin 94C over the others. The little Marlin takes a center mounted low power scope, which fixes that big open sight situation very nicely. Only problem with the little Marlin is, around here anyway, they have gotten real expensive. I guess the prices are driven by the cowboy shooters.

I do like that buck deer and the load, very nice. Very similar to the 162gr RCBS SWC GC and 15.8 to 16gr of H-110 that I use as a carry load. Thumbs up.
Ed

[dverna]

Just curious, why the jhp bullet instead of a jacketed soft point or the like? Two legged I'll go jhp every day, but a deer I want more penetration imho.

Deer in my area are rarely larger than a man. So if I was using a .357, I would want to use what has been shown to be a good bullet for killing men. I prefaced my original comment with the ability to make the shot, estimate range, and hunt. I would take a neck shot, or avoid hitting larger bones if taking a lung/heart shot, so penetration, as in through the animal after hitting the front shoulder(s), is not what I would be hoping for.

I am not suggesting the .357 is inadequate. But it is not a .308 or even a .243. It is why I decide to use a rifle cartridge. Could I kill deer with a .357....yes. But I have no need to.

There are many who have good success with the .357 and have shared that on this thread. They are most certainly better hunters than I am and can do what I cannot do. I depend on my ability to make the shot, and the advantages of a flatter shooting and harder hitting bullet to assure a humane kill when conditions are not ideal

[dverna]

Whenever someone suggests that a jacketed bullet is much better than a cast bullet for big game hunting I always ask "Seen any buffalo lately"?.

If those buffalo hunters had access to HV rifles with modern jacketed bullets, how many would have used black powder 45/70's?

Look, I get it. It is a cast bullet site. But really......

[jmort]

We have a member here using the Ranch Dog 135 grain 9mm in his Marlin Camp 9 harvesting deer, no problem. The RD 135, with a decent meplat, shoots right through the deer and they die. Michael has used it on hogs with same effect, dead. I am a believer in Lead Bullets Technology. The Magic Meplat. A .45-70 with a low velocity LBT Long Flat Nose is better than any hollow-point/soft-point high velocity bullet on large/dangerous game in terms of penetration and terminal effect. Let's not sell cast bullets short.

[MT Gianni]

Over the years I have demonstrated to several very knowable shooters why they should never load a 357 mag lever gun like a revolver. In your 357 mag reloading data you really should have a handgun page and a separate rifle page because they really do load different. The little 357 carbine is a bad hombre with a big heavy bullet and a stout load. I prefer the RCBS 200 or 180 over a heavy crimped and compressed load of H-110 or 296 with a 205m or similar rifle primer. You set the OAL to clear a revolver cylinder, if you have one, so the cylinder when loaded just turns freely. At that point the loaded round will function through a lever gun action. The real important thing is that a loaded round ejects without being fired.
The thing the 357 carbines normally need is a new set of open sights because the front sight is real big, covers about a VW Bug at 100 yards. It is the reason I prefer a Marlin 94C over the others. The little Marlin takes a center mounted low power scope, which fixes that big open sight situation very nicely. Only problem with the little Marlin is, around here anyway, they have gotten real expensive. I guess the prices are driven by the cowboy shooters.

I do like that buck deer and the load, very nice. Very similar to the 162gr RCBS SWC GC and 15.8 to 16gr of H-110 that I use as a carry load. Thumbs up.
Ed

Rossi had a Scout scope that replaced the rear sight fitting in the dovetail/ Mine works great.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Every deer I know about that needed tracted down by dogs or a bunch of hunters was shot with either a 357 magnum revolver or a bow.
All of those 357 mag deer were shot with a 158 or lighter jacketed bullet. Cast would have been no better in my opinion.

Your carbine will add a good 250 fps to the velocity parameters of the load due to the longer barrel. But still I would recommend at least a 175-180 grainer as a minimum cast weight. The same for Jacketed. From a carbine I have yet to see a 180 grainer 357 that did not exit. And the exit wound is the one that leaks out. That is where the tracking becomes 80% far easier.

Possibly a 160 or so grainer will do the job most the time. But from 30 years of shooting largish corn crunchers in west Indiana and east ILLinois I would not fire on a corn cruncher with less than a 180 grainer of any caliber. 200 grainers are just that much more insurance.

First revolver deer I popped in ILLinois I could have loaded my 357 Dan Wesson 10 inch barrel with a 180 grainer GC that wacks 200 meter iron rams with authority. But I chose a 255 grain 375 Ideal from our 375 Supermag because there was no way I wanted to have to grubble around in the dirt of a field or be looking under leaves for my first revolver corn cruncher. That red trail was a fine well marked path.
Heavy cast will not disappoint. But no exit wound will sure be a hard taskmaster.
Mike in Peru

[selmerfan]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

Yep - I used to have a 6 cavity Lee mold from a group buy copy of the 358627. It was a hammer on deer. I had both the 358627 and still have Ranch Dog's 359-190-RF 6 cavity. I like the RD better (no real reason - similar precision and velocity) so I sold the 358627. I still have 10 or 15 358627s sitting on the bench if you'd like to have them.

[dnepr]

Yep nice large buck I would guess him in the 170-180 range field dressed.

I'm going to be looking for one of these lever action guns. Here allot of good about Rossi. What your thought's ??


Teddy

for the most part I have been pretty happy with mine . I had to track down a firing pin for it recently . That was a pain but did finally get one . It is one of my favourite just for fun guns . I run a lot of cast in 38 special cases . Cheap to shoot like a 22 but a lot more fun

[Smoke4320]

Short answer yes .. if you are a good shot, proper bullet placement, and reasonable distance .. as said several times above About 100 yds
have one... did it .. LAST year .. approx. 70-75 yds .. Mil hec penta point 158 grn .. he went about 10-15yds total
Attachment 190169

[robg]

A 4570 is a pre expanded boolit it ain't going to shrink ,not allowed to use a 357 mag over here ,I'd use mine on deer if it was allowed too 190 gr GC boolits or 165 gr gc boolits I'm sure would kill them dead enough if used wisely.

[Lonegun1894]

I have killed deer and hogs with the .357 Mag loaded with either the Lee .358" 158gr SWCGC or the Lyman 358156, and fired from a 2.25" Ruger SP101, a 4" Ruger Security Six, a 6" Ruger GP100, a 10" TC Contender, a 16" Winchester 1894, and a 20" Rossi 1892. Not a single lost animal yet, but I keep my shots to 125 yards if at all possible, with the vast majority of them being under 50 yards. The only exception was a hog that was wounded by another hunter (using a .270 of all things! Not the fault of the gun or caliber, but the "hunter") and my only shot opportunity was at a bit over 200 yards, and that bullet broke the shoulder and punched through both lungs to anchor the hog. Not a shot I would take if the animal wasn't already wounded, but My Rossi 92 .357 was what I had when asked for help so it was what I used.

[DougGuy]

I *do* like the gas check, boolits cast in 50/50+2% and soft lube just WORK. No HP needed, nor recommended.

[BrutalAB]

It is more than adequate. Its the only caliber i hunt with. Ive got a 30-06 just have never found a reason to use it. Not like it can make the deer any more dead.
Just know your load and dont change it. Cause even small changes in load can cause anywhere from slight impact change to (in my experience) 6 to 7 inches at 100 yards. Also the drop is very significant, so dont forget about that.

[54bore]

I *do* like the gas check, boolits cast in 50/50+2% and soft lube just WORK. No HP needed, nor recommended.

What this man said ^ Stay away from hollow points, If you are using Jacketed bullets go with a Soft Point

[JSH]

I got on the 357 kick several years ago. I used a Marlin the first couple of times. Loaded with 180's designed to function in a lever gun. The big flat nose in the boiler room and it's all over. The next couple of years I used a 6" GP. Same powder, different bullet design, lil gun. All my shots were 150ish and under.
In the half dozen 38 and 357's I have, the 358156 and the 358427 never gave me the accuracy I was after or was satisfied with. This was from several different molds and designs there of. A whole lot of folks swear by them, I swore at them. I switched designs and all is well.
Shoot a light bullet real fast and it slows down, real fast. I am of the thoughts on momentum.
I have shot deer with most all of the standard jacketed flavors years prior to this. The ones that neck shoot. I saw a large doe take two in the neck from a 243 at around 200 yards. Hardly any effect, yet large nasty holes. The gent I was with said he missed. Found a lot of hair and very little blood. After a bit of looking I jumped her about 30 minutes later. He was in the wrong place to get a shot. Quartering away from me heading towards undiserable cover, I shot her with a 180 out of the GP. Shot entered middle of the rib cage, exited and broke the off side shoulder. Upon field dressin, internal damage was very evident. Bone fragments of shrapnel took out both lungs and the heart.
There are a whole lot of hunters that have no idea of the anatomy of their target. They presume to think bigger,faster or newer is the key. If they would spend just a few more minutes looking at the internals when field dressing, rather than just getting it back to show their buddies.

The gent this transpired with knocked the 357 a lot, yet thinks the 223 is a great deer cartridge. I won't knock a 223, with the right bullet, with the right shot placement.
Jeff