357 Carbine for deer?

[arclight]

Hodgson Lil'Gun is also an excellent powder to get maximum velocity out of a 16" or longer barrel. I've seen 158gr slugs clock at over 2,000fps with some of those loads. It's a bit slow for pistol, but an excellent powder for 357 carbines and 30 carbine.

Arclight

[wonderwolf]

I have about 19 different molds for .38/357 and have for the last 3 years really played with the chronograph, several revolver barrel lengths (2",4",5",6" etc) and my 77 in 357 as well.

Loads using fast powders for revolvers might not give you the velocity you would hope for in your carbine. I've had loads give me very little return for the extra barrel length (18.5" vs 5") but with the slower powders much like the OP's questioned 2400 you can get a lot of velocity return for that extra barrel length, I've pushed cast 125's (MP's 360640) to 2000 fps with great accuracy out of my carbine and could go higher in the load if I wished (bullet retained full weight when recovered from wet pack tests which really surprised me)

But I would not shoot a game animal with the same load I might use for self defense, stopping a threat is not the same as meat hunting....unless you're after griz?

A good shot with a poor bullet will give better results than a poor shot with a good bullet...only thing I would say is stay away from the round nose stuff in cast or jacketed. I've never hunted deer but I know when they get shot and that epinephrine kicks in they can do some pretty amazing things even though they don't know they are dead yet.

Find a accurate load with 2400 or h110 or similar powder with a 158+gr bullet with a healthy meplat and try it out, ymmv but that is def where I would start. Remember to put out survey tape if you have lanes of fire for your max distance.

I haven't tried any of mihecs 160-170 version of the 360640 in my 77 yet but I think they will work out very well....for some reason the double crimp groove really annoys me on it however.

Deer were killed with .40 cal round balls out of long rifles for a long time before we got the .357 magnum so its all there...just need to know how to best utilize it.

[725]

Well said Lonegun1894.

PM coming over.

[6mm win lee]

I have to question why anybody would shoot a deer in the body at less than 100 yards, when they all have a neck and it doesn't make much difference what you shoot them in the neck with, you don't have to look for them, and you are not making a mess when you dress them and not ruining the meat.

The object of the game is called shot placement, animal recovery and maximum harvest. I knew a guy who shot a deer in the neck and missed the spine and major arteries and veins. The deer ran off and was not recovered until it was found dead a week later. We ragged him for a couple of years.

I killed a deer last year at a distance of thirty feet. Why? Because that is where it stopped to look back at my brother. A slug right through both sides of the rib cage, missed the front legs, and it still ran a hundred feet before keeling over. There was no loss of meat since we don't pick at the rib meat. I have taken shots at running deer in my early years, much to my shame, and lost a bunch of gut shot deer and decided I need to break that bad habit. Lost deer goes to nil when you deflate their lungs and heart. Sure, there may be a drop or two of blood in the cleaning process but that just means there is less blood in the meat.

all the best.

[Saxtonyoung]

I have taken deer with the following guns.
357 Ruger Blackhawk
Marlin 1894 C
Ruger 77/357
All 3 guns were loaded with the same handload consisting of a 180 LBT bullet and 296 powder. I'm totally convinced that the 357 is plenty capable for the deer I hunt in Michigan.
I even used the Marlin on a average sized Black Bear in 2005.

[9.3X62AL]

I am about to start my 357 loading for our October deer season here in the DPRK. First step will be about 40-50 each of Bruce B Softpoints in 2-3 weights, and test drives and chronography with homogenous-alloy castings of the same designs. I know that folks suggest "Lil Gun" powder for the heavy-bullet long-barrel applications, but in addition to AA-9 and 2400 I think some AA-1680 will get a look-see as well. Casting BBSPs in a Lee 6-banger will be the only untried challenge remaining. With 109* temps here yesterday, that just didn't suggest itself as a good idea.

The Henry Big Boy 357 carbine and the Ruger BisHawk revolver will get the call this year. I have gotten 1525-1550 FPS from the BH using Lyman #358156 and accuracy held. These are loaded "long" and contain a Rated-X weight of 2400. Pressures are healthy, I'm sure--but 3 or 4 of the 6 empties slide free from the cylinder via gravity with the muzzle straight up......a light tap with the ejector rod frees any that hang up, no "push out" required. Primers (CCI 500) have some of the radius squared a bit, but they aren't flattened.

These long-loaded "156s" don't feed in the Henry--too long. The Lee Group Buy 180 FNGC runs like water in the Henry, and shoots very well. Dunno if the 6-banger tool will work as a softpoint maker though. I have a strong bias that favors heavy-for-caliber bullets, and that goes double for castings.

So I have some R&D pending. And perhaps another Accurate bullet mould, which make EXCELLENT Bruce B Softpoints in their 2-cavity size.

[Thin Man]

Having read a few comments about neck shooting I got a flash memory from a few years ago. While I was seated on the side of a ridge a nice buck came in fast walking from my right to left. The distance and open cover allowed me a shot. When the shot sounded the deer ran like he was more scared than hurt. The blood trail from his chest told a different story and was an easy follow for 40 yards to where he fell. As soon as I got to him I saw 2 wounds. The first was my chest shot that had stopped him. The second was at the back of his head where the skull cap had been blown away by a "close but not close enough" hit from another hunter. The entire rear area of the animal's brain was exposed to the elements. This deer could have traveled for miles before he stopped to die and never would have been found. Some shooters can make meat with neck shots, bit I will just aim for the middle of the largest vital area the animal presents.

Reading everyone's chronograph reports for 158-180 loads in 357 magnum caliber give me more confidence than before in this cartridge. A close friend used to carry a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington which he claimed was the deer-killingest machine he had ever carried. He was a highly successful hunter with much experience. The comparison between these calibers is close enough that I will probably be found carrying a 357 carbine at some time this season. Have the rifle, just need to work up loads and get in range time.

[Shingle]

That combination should work good as long as you use it properly, Iv used a Marlin Camp 9 to deer hunt for years with great success,as long as you understand the limitations of you and the carbine, enjoy.

[SSGOldfart]

In the matter of the .357 Mag or .357 Max, has anybody used / hunted with the 358627? I've gotten pigs with it but never deer. I'm sure it would work just fine but would like to hear about others and their results. In the arena of .357's for hunting, I think it's a fine boolit.

yes Sir I've killed a pig with my 357maximum,with a 180gr cast plane base WFN Boolit pushed with 20grins of 2400.

[9.3X62AL]

I aim "through" the critter toward the far-side front shoulder--deer, coyote, jackrabbit. In 52 years as a licensed hunter, very few animals so hit have gone very far, or even gotten up in the majority of cases. I have yet to lose a hit deer. I even aim @ center-mass on evil rats in hayfields. If yer gonna whack something, whack it a good one.

The Lee 6-cavity moulds do fine work in most instances, but are an unwieldy impossibility for making Bruce B Softpoints. 4th and 14, time to punt. I did get some nice donor slugs in pure lead, though (Lyman #257420). I see a new 2-cavity Accurate Mould in my near future. Drat the luck.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm thinking about just using muzzleloaders this year seeing how I've never lost a deer with either 45 or 50 caliber,but I still carrying the 357 as a backup,just in case.I have many options available but not enough deer season to use them all the 357mag and/or the 357 Maximum will always get the Job done for me,
Yea I've lost a couple of deer in the past 60 seasons. Kinda funny how the one that got away is the one you'll remember the most. If I do my part the round will do it's part. First deer I lost was with a 30-30,@less then 30 yards went straight through him, no blood to speak of so I replaced it with a 06, and for years never lost another,Then one day I shoot a nice buck with my 357, but I thought I had pulled the shot,turns out my shot was good but this deer went 400 yards ???? Before it bleed out, took almost two days to find it. so I learned to tailored loads are needed for a clean quick killing load.

[psweigle]

To the OP, yes, 357 magnum is more than adequate to take deer at a reasonable distance. My carbine of choice is the ruger 77/357. I use a round nose flat point lee 158gr powder coated, and a very stiff charge of H110. 2400 is more than respectable in 357 magnum, so I see no issue with that choice.

As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target.

I've had much success with my 357 with both jacketed SOFT points and cast boolits, and I have to say that the cast boolits are forever the way I will go from this point on

Good luck to you in whatever you decide. I hope this helped you

[Larry Gibson]

"As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target."

Have to disagree. A properly designed HP in a cast bullet used for hunting game such as deer will penetrate "all the way through" most any deer except for Texas heart shots......they are designed to expand increasing the size of the wound channel through the deer which increases the terminal effect. I have shot many deer (black tail and mule deer) with numerous cast .30 caliber bullets with a 1/8" HP 3/16" deep. All were through and through with excellent terminal effects (deer seldom went more than 20 - 25 yards before going down if not DRT). I've also used similar HPs in cast 8mm, 35 and 375 caliber cast bullets with the same effectiveness. I'll take a properly cast and HP'd bullet over any hard cast WFN any day for hunting.....actually I like the WFN cast bullets cast soft with a HP, that way I get the best of both worlds......problem is WFN cast bullets won't feed reliably in many actions, especially bolt actions.

As a LEO in NE Oregon I had to put down many injured animals; domestic along with deer and elk, especially after bow and general season. I put enough deer down with a six inch 357 revolver and a 10" Contender using the 358156 cast of 16 - 1 alloy and HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool to know the .357 magnum will take deer quite effectively with the appropriate bullet.......jacketed or cast, especially out of a carbine. It's up to the hunter to use the right bullet and put it in the right place. That being done the .357 Magnum is up to the job within a practical range.

Larry Gibson

[SSGOldfart]

"As already stated, stay away from hollow points for deer, they TYPICALLY don't penetrate all the way through. They were designed to stop and disperse all the energy INSIDE the intended target."

Have to disagree. A properly designed HP in a cast bullet used for hunting game such as deer will penetrate "all the way through" most any deer except for Texas heart shots......they are designed to expand increasing the size of the wound channel through the deer which increases the terminal effect. I have shot many deer (black tail and mule deer) with numerous cast .30 caliber bullets with a 1/8" HP 3/16" deep. All were through and through with excellent terminal effects (deer seldom went more than 20 - 25 yards before going down if not DRT). I've also used similar HPs in cast 8mm, 35 and 375 caliber cast bullets with the same effectiveness. I'll take a properly cast and HP'd bullet over any hard cast WFN any day for hunting.....actually I like the WFN cast bullets cast soft with a HP, that way I get the best of both worlds......problem is WFN cast bullets won't feed reliably in many actions, especially bolt actions.

As a LEO in NE Oregon I had to put down many injured animals; domestic along with deer and elk, especially after bow and general season. I put enough deer down with a six inch 357 revolver and a 10" Contender using the 358156 cast of 16 - 1 alloy and HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool to know the .357 magnum will take deer quite effectively with the appropriate bullet.......jacketed or cast, especially out of a carbine. It's up to the hunter to use the right bullet and put it in the right place. That being done the .357 Magnum is up to the job within a practical range.

Larry Gibson

Larry I couldn't agree more totally as a game warden I put down my share of game with my duty weapon. A 357mag. I was always loaded with HP's

[psweigle]

You are correct and I should have clarified. I was referring to the commercial hollow points designed for self defense. Sorry for the confusion.