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Thread: No lands in new marlin 1895 barrel

  1. #101
    Boolit Master




    TexasGrunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckshotshoey View Post
    For the price that Remlin is now commanding for their rifles, only a few dollars more will get a Henry. Quality and customer service is stellar. If you can get past not having a loading gate, it is a real gem. Rossi is another option. I have the feeling that Remington won't be around as a company much longer. Sad thought. It left a bad taste in my mouth just saying it. And they will take the Marlin name down with them.

    Question..... how many of you who wouldn't consider a Henry (because of tube loading) would buy one if they produced rifles with a loading gate?
    How much more would the Henry cost with a loading gate?
    Semper Fi!


    Currently casting for .223, .308, .30-06, .30-40 Krag, 9mm, .38/.357, 10mm, 44 Mag and 45 ACP.

    I like strange looking boolits!

    NRA Patriot Life Endowment member.

  2. #102
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    My daughter was a USN Gunners mate I the armory standard for a GI rifle they released for service is 3 MOA checked at 50 confirmation at 100 as needed . 3.45 inches .

    Fortunately we have some cut rate out fits like Savage that build to a higher standard even if they are ugly . ��

    All of our industry has suffered across the board over the last 40 years . Costs for regulations have driven a big part of that . The fact is we came out of WWII with industry that could turn out 1000 rifles a day every one a 3" rifle , we had machinists that could run the manual machines in their sleep ,they probably did run them in their sleep . Those machinists taught a whole generation how to hold .002 over/under on machines with .005 in wear slop in them . Today a tool head with .003 slop is run-out but it comes off the pallet with .001 and .005 is good enough for QC (it seems like there should be another zero in there) . Where this becomes a problem is with a broach or button that is off center by .003 . Now you have a $1000 tool to make $10,000 in parts ,bbls in this case that are lop sidded and or missing a groove . Probably the bbl shop has a 10% rule or a 1 % for inspection of finished white bbls , now if the inspection were at the end of the button line the rejects could be rebored and rerifled and this wouldn't happen . If there were an operator on every machine this wouldn't happen because the operator would notice a difference in the cutting or tool appearance . With 1 operator for 5 machines with a quota there's no time for a guy on a rotating line to get to know 3 of 5 tool head 673793 -3-5 until it's made 7-800 bad parts , which if we're lucky QC found 3-5 . So they pull a guy off the line he finds 10-20 doing a 25% check on 5,000 bbls and the whole 3 day run gets pulled for use as warranty parts where they should be checked out as part of the installers job but the installer has looked at 100 bbls an found 1 . So the installer figures that's that for the bad bbls and quits looking at that batch . Guess what ? Of the 800 or so bad cuts we've only weeded out about 200 in shop and probably 200 got out the door . Based on probability averages and 800/5000 of a production day . There's still 1/6 chance of any given bbls in that production lot of being a bad bbl .
    The odds are really against 1 customer getting 4 of them , but at 378 million to 1 somebody , sometimes several somebody's , pick all 6 numbers for the lottery 2-5 times a yr .

    Maybe Rem took a look at this , maybe they read through it all , maybe it hit home . Maybe it won't take 800 ads to smooth it over , maybe they will make it right whether by upgrade or by buy back or replacement .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  3. #103
    Boolit Buddy RGrosz's Avatar
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    When I used to work at Gateway Computers (remember them, cow-spotted boxes) they used to say 1 dissatisfied customer would tell 10 friends and they would tell 10 more friends. They worked like that till the CEO retired and hired another CEO. Then the business changed and they started the spiral down. Maybe that's what Remmy is going to do???
    Rob

  4. #104
    Boolit Master buckshotshoey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGrunt View Post
    How much more would the Henry cost with a loading gate?
    Good point. A rough guess would be about 50 dollars. Don't know for sure. I can see no need to change the mag tube. You can load through the gate and unload from the tube. That would work, and save some money in the process.

    But how much is a quality gun with superb customer service worth? I sent an email with the suggestion. Will wait and see what the response is.

  5. #105
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Big Green is putting out some real *** rifles. The kids bought me a Marlin 1895 cowboy for fathers day. After the original cleaning I took a peak with the bore scope. YIKES. There were rough machining marks for the length of the barrel and actual chunks of the lands missing. These missing parts were as deep as the rifling and there were several of them about 4 to 5" down the bore from the muzzle. Pathetic QC and had to ask the kids to send an expensive gift back because of just plain ***** workmanship. For to long Remington has counted on selling their name to people who rarely shoot and just count poor performance up to their own shortcomings. "What could be wrong? It's brand new." I hope they go broke if they can't or won't improve their products. Gp

  6. #106
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    My daughter was a USN Gunners mate I the armory standard for a GI rifle they released for service is 3 MOA checked at 50 confirmation at 100 as needed . 3.45 inches .

    Fortunately we have some cut rate out fits like Savage that build to a higher standard even if they are ugly . ��

    All of our industry has suffered across the board over the last 40 years . Costs for regulations have driven a big part of that . The fact is we came out of WWII with industry that could turn out 1000 rifles a day every one a 3" rifle , we had machinists that could run the manual machines in their sleep ,they probably did run them in their sleep . Those machinists taught a whole generation how to hold .002 over/under on machines with .005 in wear slop in them . Today a tool head with .003 slop is run-out but it comes off the pallet with .001 and .005 is good enough for QC (it seems like there should be another zero in there) . Where this becomes a problem is with a broach or button that is off center by .003 . Now you have a $1000 tool to make $10,000 in parts ,bbls in this case that are lop sidded and or missing a groove . Probably the bbl shop has a 10% rule or a 1 % for inspection of finished white bbls , now if the inspection were at the end of the button line the rejects could be rebored and rerifled and this wouldn't happen . If there were an operator on every machine this wouldn't happen because the operator would notice a difference in the cutting or tool appearance . With 1 operator for 5 machines with a quota there's no time for a guy on a rotating line to get to know 3 of 5 tool head 673793 -3-5 until it's made 7-800 bad parts , which if we're lucky QC found 3-5 . So they pull a guy off the line he finds 10-20 doing a 25% check on 5,000 bbls and the whole 3 day run gets pulled for use as warranty parts where they should be checked out as part of the installers job but the installer has looked at 100 bbls an found 1 . So the installer figures that's that for the bad bbls and quits looking at that batch . Guess what ? Of the 800 or so bad cuts we've only weeded out about 200 in shop and probably 200 got out the door . Based on probability averages and 800/5000 of a production day . There's still 1/6 chance of any given bbls in that production lot of being a bad bbl .
    The odds are really against 1 customer getting 4 of them , but at 378 million to 1 somebody , sometimes several somebody's , pick all 6 numbers for the lottery 2-5 times a yr .

    Maybe Rem took a look at this , maybe they read through it all , maybe it hit home . Maybe it won't take 800 ads to smooth it over , maybe they will make it right whether by upgrade or by buy back or replacement .
    Please use some paragraphs so us older eyes have an easier time reading it.

    thanks.
    Semper Fi!


    Currently casting for .223, .308, .30-06, .30-40 Krag, 9mm, .38/.357, 10mm, 44 Mag and 45 ACP.

    I like strange looking boolits!

    NRA Patriot Life Endowment member.

  7. #107
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpidaho View Post
    Big Green is putting out some real *** rifles. The kids bought me a Marlin 1895 cowboy for fathers day. After the original cleaning I took a peak with the bore scope. YIKES. There were rough machining marks for the length of the barrel and actual chunks of the lands missing. These missing parts were as deep as the rifling and there were several of them about 4 to 5" down the bore from the muzzle. Pathetic QC and had to ask the kids to send an expensive gift back because of just plain ***** workmanship. For to long Remington has counted on selling their name to people who rarely shoot and just count poor performance up to their own shortcomings. "What could be wrong? It's brand new." I hope they go broke if they can't or won't improve their products. Gp
    GP I just looked at the ups tracking. Mine was supposed to get there yesterday. It now says monday the 26th. Hopefully yours will get there close to the same time and the Nice person will want to fix them right so there won't be any more returns. We can hope, right?

  8. #108
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    comprschrg; I guess there's always hope. I wonder how many are already lined up on their work bench? Got my Mid-South order in yesterday with all the brass, dies and anything else I could think of for a 45-70. Now I just need the rifle. No end to the good news. The Rcbs cowboy die set makes little lube dents around the brass about 1/2" down from the mouth of the case. (made a couple of dummy rounds) I'm going to wait for some fired cases and use a different lube and see if they still mark the cases. Gp

  9. #109
    Boolit Master
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    Check the bleed hole in the sizing die to see if it's got a burr on it or full of metal chips. Clean with a pipe cleaner. Or run a bore brush with some silicon carbide paper on it with a variable speed drill. And clean very well with patches and solvent and do the bleed hole to get any trapped grit out. Had a set of lee dies for 375 win and every case got scratched. Did all the above and still did scratches. Don't have the dies anymore. Frank

  10. #110
    Boolit Man
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    gpidaho, The Rcbs cowboy die set makes little lube dents around the brass about 1/2" down from the mouth of the case. (made a couple of dummy rounds) I'm going to wait for some fired cases and use a different lube and see if they still mark the cases. Gp[/QUOTE]

    Different lube, less lube, or even try depriming first. I know I've done the same thing. Don't remember if I was using the cowdoy dies, or hornady set. I ended up making a bore guild with the wrinkled case. I drilled the flash hole so the cleaning rod would fit, (tough to hold without smashing) then crammed it into a 308 die. That necked the mouth of the 45-70 case down to a close size of the cleaning rod. Not needed so much with your 1895, but useful in a single shot.

  11. #111
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Guys; I'm out of my chosen lube (imperial size wax) and have on hand some of the Hornady Unique lube. I apply this Very sparingly. I rub a small amount between the thumb and fore finger and lube 10 or so cases. I've had lube dent problems with Unique lube before with 308 cases and suspect that this is the problem. I have more Imperial on order. samari46; As far as I know most sizing dies for strait wall cases don't have bleed holes and this die doesn't but thanks for the reply. In any event, I'm pretty sure if there is a continuing problem RCBS will take care of it. They have always done right by me. Gp

  12. #112
    Boolit Master buckshotshoey's Avatar
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    Use a Sharpie and mark the case and the die. Line the two marks before sizing. Use that as a reference point to see if it happens in the same position every time. Might give you a clue as to what's going on. Clean die after every use. Lube dents should be more random.

  13. #113
    Boolit Buddy Dusty Ed's Avatar
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    Howdy Sigmanz
    You are right Marlin has been in business a very long time ,There tools were wore out an wouldn't buy new, their quality was going down hill for quite a few years,when they sold to REMLIN
    I don't think that any of the old hands went along. they couldn't make a NEW MARLIN THAT WORKED ,In 2011 they shut all production an install all new CNC equipment an now they are supposed to be making a pretty good firearm an improving.
    I'm 78 years old an have own 1000's of guns an shot many more I have never seen a gun manufactured by any company that didn't have some kind of problem.

  14. #114
    Boolit Man
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    Well I'm waking up this thread again. I got my forth barrel back from Marlin last night. Drum role.....ahh no. they put another bad barrel on this also. This is the second rifle, forth bad barrel!!!!!!! And yes, I had to register both rifles in my name, payed the fee. A call to Marlin this morning 6:00 my time. couldn't sleep since 3:00am. The gentleman said it was the first he'd herd of such a thing. So the other two people I talked to, multiple times that said they'd let there superiors know of the situation, and they'd make a note for when my rifle came in, it would get a closer look obviously didn't happen. At least this time I didn't get a number to return the gun. He said his supervisor will call me. I'm waiting.

  15. #115
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    We got the 45-70 1895 Cowboy back from Remlin. They stated that they could find no reason for the customer complaint and sent a five shot target fired by some rifle somewhere. Apparently if the bullet comes out of the bore when the gun is fired you shouldn't worry about mangled rifling. Gp

  16. #116
    Boolit Man
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    gp, I've had nightmares about something like,,,,,, uh,, exactly like that happening to me. I think I'd blow a gasket. I haven't cleaned the bore yet, Just did the toothpick test. That's all I need to do, to know it's the same. With the copper fowling streaks it looks ok. Maybe I will clean it good before I send it back.

  17. #117
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    There is something so not right ..........
    I can't even begin to figure the probability of the same person getting 3 much less 4 bad bbls .

    At this point maybe you should buy a Henry even if it doesn't have a loading gate .........
    I would have to say you're just not supposed to have a 45-70 Marlin ...... Time to listen to that nagging little voice/guardian angel/whisper in the wind , I think it might be trying to tell you something . That or fixing to hit you with a freight train .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  18. #118
    Boolit Man
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    Harter66, I can't help myself. I was talking to the guy at Marlin telling him, walking him through the pictures on this thread while reading your post. he asked me multiple times if I wanted a refund. Are you sure he said, I told him I'd try another rifle. He was super nice about the whole thing. It just hit me this will be another registration fee. Will someone kick me.

  19. #119
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    comprschrg: I guess I just don't have your tenacity and patience. We took the rifle back to the dealer for a refund. Really a disappointment as other than having a totally ***** barrel it was a very good looking rifle. It's my opinion that Remlin is at this time totally incapable of producing an acceptable barrel. Now that I have all the dies, brass, moulds and other misc. together seems all I need now is a rifle. I can't see me ever doing any business with Remington again in this life time. Gp

  20. #120
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprschrg View Post
    Harter66, I can't help myself. I was talking to the guy at Marlin telling him, walking him through the pictures on this thread while reading your post. he asked me multiple times if I wanted a refund. Are you sure he said, I told him I'd try another rifle. He was super nice about the whole thing. It just hit me this will be another registration fee. Will someone kick me.
    Lol .
    I've been stubborn/determined/insistent about things like this once or twice . Not so much money on the line .
    I'm just glad I lucked into a good one I guess .

    I hate having dies brass and moulds with nothing to feed .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check