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Thread: Pushing PC boolits hard in handguns and pistol caliber carbines?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Pushing PC boolits hard in handguns and pistol caliber carbines?

    Per my other thread, I just started PCing in an attempt to solve a leading 9mm, but it has me curious about PCed +p loads, full magnum revolver loads, and pistol caliber rifle rounds. How has PC treated you in these loads? Have you been able to drop gas checks? Use softer lead? Accuracy?
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Powder Coating or any other coating for that matter is not magical. You can get by with possibly less leading or none but if the boolit fit isn't right or the alloy isn't up to the twist rate and pressures then accuracy is going to suffer. Many have went to alternative lube methods such as PCing or Hi-Tek and there is great success with these new methods. I myself didn't have success at first with PC boolits but later did. Now I work Hi-Tek coatings for my pistol and revolver rounds. Running top end Ruger Only 45 Colt loads to 10mm, 40 S&W, 9mm and 45 ACP.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by RobS View Post
    Powder Coating or any other coating for that matter is not magical. You can get by with possibly less leading or none but if the boolit fit isn't right or the alloy isn't up to the twist rate and pressures then accuracy is going to suffer. Many have went to alternative lube methods such as PCing or Hi-Tek and there is great success with these new methods. I myself didn't have success at first with PC boolits but later did. Now I work Hi-Tek coatings for my pistol and revolver rounds. Running top end Ruger Only 45 Colt loads to 10mm, 40 S&W, 9mm and 45 ACP.
    This is true, PC simply replaces boolit lube. Before pushing Óny boolits all other variables must be addressed.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I have started loading for my 9 mm PCC with 16" barrel using 147 gr FP bullets coated with Hi-Tek coating and 6-2-92 alloy and running 900 fps with great accuracy and no leading. For me the 9 mm bullets need to be in the 14 to 15 BHN range and sized .002" over barrel DA.

    YMMV

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Best results for me to go fast, powder coating with a home made gas ckeck works the best. The gas check gives a good seal at higher pressures with high velocity loads. As stated emailer the powder coat replaces the lube, the gas check gives the seal at high pressure.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 308Jeff's Avatar
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    Subscribing. Interested in loading both 40 and 9mm for carbines.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I dunno about the gas check thing being needed in revolvers and lever guns.
    I usually get put off by the recoil before I get to the gas check part.
    I do have ONE gas check pistol/revolver type mold I use for my 445 super mag.

    one of these years i'll cast some 429667's and cook some powder on them and see if they'll still go over 1600 in the lever gun.
    but with over half a 5 gallon bucket of them lube-sized, and all my 44 mag brass filled [finally] I don't see that happening any time soon.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Well I know w from my experience that I don't "need" to powder coat any of my lever gun loads. My 16" Rossi 357 will shoot the Lee 358-158-RF bevel base lubed over max charges of Lilgun with great accuracy and no leading. My 44, 45 and 454C all get gas checks and lube. Again, full power with Lilgun. No problem with leading. However, my 9mm CX-4 storm and Sub 2000 will both lead up with any plain base bullet and lube. Doesn't matter what powder, alloy or how fat I size them. Also use a M die so I know I'm not sizing them down when seating. Gets much better with Hi-Tek but still leads the first couple inches. If I powder coat for my 9mm carbines I can run them faster and get absolutely no leading and just as good accuracy. I don't gas check for 9mm because it's too tedious even though I have a gas check NOE mold. I get the same results with regards to leading wether I use the Lee 356-124-2R, Lee 358-125-RF or my RCBS 9mm-124-RN molds. With Hi-Tek vs PC I have a MP HT358-135-RF that does much better with the powder coat vs HT. Just my experience.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Alloy has to be right but I run Bo @ 2100 PB and 308w GC @ 2700, no problem. I run full power 40 with no problems or GCs.
    Whatever!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Boolit_Head's Avatar
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    If you can push rifle bullets past pistol velocities why would pistol bullets have any problem?
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master



    shoot-n-lead's Avatar
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    I routinely push pc'd .357's to near 1700fps in single shot handguns and faster in lever rifles...no leading.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I haven't had a chance to test my 30 caliber super sonic loads without gas checks yet.

    People have been shooting hard cast (18+BHN) lubed bullets to magnum velocity without gas checks for years. So why wouldn't PC work as well????

    But the fact is I am pushing PC cast bullets with 12BHN alloy at 33,200 psi without gas checks and having ZERO ISSUES. Not even muzzle brake coating !! And everything below this psi is working great too with 12BHN PC alloy.

    I don't purposely test for limits I simply don't have the time but it seems so far that PC cast boolits can be push pretty hard in pistol calibers and it also seem the bigger the bore the better.

    I can also say from photos of recovered PC boolits that the PC does not ware from contact with the bore. I guess if you had a really rough bore it could though.

    I just bought a mould for my 45-70. This will probably be a great test bed for non-gas checked PC boolits in a carbine. My 1895 is a ported model too.

    Motor

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I've pushed 9mm 95 grain pills past 1550 in my pistols with no issues or leading, with both PC and HiTek.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
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    I routinely shoot PC boolits in my Scorpion.



    I have gotten them up measured up to 1300 FPS or so...but no real point to it for paper punching. The load I use now runs a shade over 1100 FPS in the Scorpion, and I'm good with that. BTW, every load I tried picked up about 100 FPS going from a 4.5 inch barrel to a 7 incher
    Last edited by armoredman; 03-16-2017 at 12:15 AM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master fredj338's Avatar
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    IMO, no gc is needed for any pistol load, especially with PC. I have run my 6.8 @ 2000fps with PC, n leading but only 3" groups @ 100. I need to play with alloy, I think harder bullets would shoot a bit better.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I do not have a lube sizer and I refuse to buy gas checks (even though I buy molds meant for them). I shoot mostly magnum (or bigger) revolvers and TC contenders.

    Before PC, I put a lot of effort into getting reasonable results with heavy loads but never could achieve zero leading. My Dan Wesson 357 max revolver was the worst, even medium-light cast loads would leave lead. I spent lots of time cleaning leaded barrels and I bought J Words for a considerable portion of my shooting.

    Now I shoot cast only, I shoot much higher volumes than ever before and I get zero leading from all my standard loads. I use BLL for high volume lighter loads (38 Specials, 55 grn plinkers in 327 Fed and 60 grn plinkers in 30 Herrett). I go with ASBB HF Red for medium & full power loads in 327 fed, 357 Mag, 44 mag and 357 Max.

    PC also seemed to do the job (prevent leading) for heavy "checkless" Lee 150s and Lee 170s in my 30 Herretts (10" TC & 14" TC) and 30-30 (14" TC). None of these barrels would keep the boolits stable at absolute max velocities, but there was still no leading.

    I have pushed PC pretty hard. For example, my 357 max guns can take more pressure than the brass. Loads are too hot when the primers flatten. At this point primer pockets loosen over time. My heavy loads use Lee 200 boolits without the checks that the boolit was designed for. I have used soft (1xPb, 3x COWW, AC, 8.5 BHN), medium, and hard (COWW water dropped, 20 BHN). It shoots with zero leading and accuracy is as good or better than any other bullet (around 3 moa). Below is some load data and results. The 4227 load is probably below max. For the 296 load, I am going to say it is "safe in my guns only". Note also that the Lee boolit seats with 1/8" more powder space than the 200 J words I have. The 20 grn 296 charge is very very warm but Ok with the Lee boolit. It is too hot when fired with a Speer J word.

    Gun Powder Charge Velocity
    DW 8" 4227 19.3 1410
    TC 10" 4227 19.3 1432
    TC 14" 4227 19.3 1530

    TC 10" 296 20 1665
    TC 14" 296 20 1760
    Last edited by P Flados; 03-17-2017 at 10:35 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I have found with hard alloy you can push PC just as fast as jacketed. I have been running 250gr cast in my Rossi lever gun, at 1800fps. I have shot 55gr PC out of a 22 hornet at 3000fps. And my 300 win mag does really well with a 230gr cast at 2500fps. I doubt a soft alloy would work.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


    blikseme300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motor View Post
    I haven't had a chance to test my 30 caliber super sonic loads without gas checks yet.

    People have been shooting hard cast (18+BHN) lubed bullets to magnum velocity without gas checks for years. So why wouldn't PC work as well????

    But the fact is I am pushing PC cast bullets with 12BHN alloy at 33,200 psi without gas checks and having ZERO ISSUES. Not even muzzle brake coating !! And everything below this psi is working great too with 12BHN PC alloy.

    I don't purposely test for limits I simply don't have the time but it seems so far that PC cast boolits can be push pretty hard in pistol calibers and it also seem the bigger the bore the better.

    I can also say from photos of recovered PC boolits that the PC does not ware from contact with the bore. I guess if you had a really rough bore it could though.

    I just bought a mould for my 45-70. This will probably be a great test bed for non-gas checked PC boolits in a carbine. My 1895 is a ported model too.

    Motor
    Not quite the same but I found that in my Ruger M77 tang safety in 458WM I can push PB PC'd 450gn CB's to 1,850fps before accuracy drops off as it starts to hurt and I flinch a bit. I backed off the load to 1,750fps measured and accuracy is very good and my shoulder thanks me for it as I typically shoot 40~50 rounds in a session. I tried 500gn CB's with GC's but they were not as accurate and they eat GC's so I quit using these. Lee mold and shake-n-bake using JD green from smoke.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check