The SAR K2-45 is a CZ based design made in Turkey and imported by EAA. They go for a pretty reasonable price and seem pretty compact. I carry one quite often. They use the Para double-stack mags, so you have 14+1 capacity in .45ACP. Same mag as is used by the Para P14.45, so I already had some spare mags when I bought it.
In 9mm for my shop that is available for $309, they have a good reputation from what I understand.Originally Posted by NavyVet1959
Keep in mind these prices are tax, and fees included for my area.
There are a couple of things. First of all, I admit my harsh criticism of the Glock's grip is probably not entirely fair. My hands are relatively short and wide compared to the averages and I think that works against me.
In any case, I have two major gripes with it. 1) The side panels of the grip are flat and 2) the Glock 'hump'. The Glock hump is the lesser of these two issues. In the G19 and G26 it's not a serious problem. In the G17 or any of the full size guns like the G34, G41, or similar, the Glock hump irritates the nerves in my palm sufficiently to induce muscle spasms after 50 to 100 rounds.
My bigger gripe is the flat nature of the grips. In 4 years of shooting practice and dry fire practice I never could get enough purchase on the gun to dry fire without my sights moving. My hands simply are *not* shaped that way. I need palm swell in my grips. Few 9mms have it...I'm on a Sig P320 subcompact now and while it's far more comfortable to shoot than a Glock, I struggle with accuracy with it, though that could be due to the 3.5" barrel / short sight radius plus not being able to get my entire hand on the subcompact grip. That and the ammo I'm using probably isn't the greatest either.
I considered the M&P but I know it won't work for me with the small grip insert. Gun shops around here are lazy, and won't let you switch the grip insert out to try one of the other sizes, so I never had a chance to really try the M&P for real. Even if I found that the larger inserts worked at this point it wouldn't matter, I'm too destitute at this point to go trading guns in.
Any gun with grips that are flat, without palm swell, are unacceptable for my purposes, and that's most 9mm pistols anymore. The P320, Sig P226, Browning Hi Power, and 1911 are the only suitable 9mm pistols for me. The BHP, P226, and 1911 are too expensive, so P320 it is. The CZ ought to work well for me and it is comfortable, but I get poor purchase on it too, for reasons I've never been able to ascertain.
The Glock grip is practically optimized to thwart comfortable shooting for me.
James I find the flat sides awkward, and uncomfortable also. I can slip a cleaning rod between my fingers, and the frame on the right side, I am right handed. Not so with the 1911's or the Pavona I handled today.
It's odd I have never seen a flat sided flashlight, flat brooms, flat hammers, or axes. There must be a reason why.
The 9mm one has a polymer frame from what I understand. I like steel. But, if someone was looking for a plastic pistol and the other choice was a Glock, I say that the SAR 9mm would be a better design. They are a CZ based design and just seem so much more compact than the Glocks. Probably because their slides are inside the frames instead of outside them. That, plus the lower bore axis, just makes them feel more compact.
I've put some hot 10mm loads through my G20 and a single-stack RIA 10mm. These are 747 ft-lb loads using a 216 gr bullet. You would think that with the wider grip of the Glock, it would absorb the recoil more, but my subjective opinion is that it seem that the RIA handles the recoil better. Maybe it's the VZ grips that are distributing the recoil forces around the grip into my hand instead of just the back of the grip like with the Glock.
Same for me on the cleaning rod. I think the reason is because flat grips print less for some people when carrying concealed. Personally I'd rather have a gun that prints a little that I can shoot well.
I've often thought about getting a Lone Wolf aftermarket Glock frame and then the upper parts from Glockmeister, just to have a reliable 9mm with a grip that isn't completely horrible. Expensive route to go and, unfortunately, when you go switching around parts like that you don't know if you're going to end up with the same reliable performance as the original factory setup.
That seems like a good possibility. Could also have to do with weight. The RIA is a heavier, steel framed gun. Heavier guns, naturally, use up more of that kinetic energy in the recoil impulse to get moving than lighter guns.
Perhaps, but the G20 holds more rounds, so I think in the end, the weight is probably about the same.
My first 1911 was a double stack 45 and the grip was what can be described as a square. Big. And it fit my hand well! Like I said I'm very tall and thin and my hands are XL. So, most anything sucks but if it's considered too big by most it's usually better for me.
Oh btw. I ordered the g19 this morning. So i will report back how I like it. Even if I don't enjoy shooting it as much as my 1911 and 25-14 I want to have it as an adventure, reliable, backpack, shtf piece.
You all have been absolutely no help at all and have even done me the disservice of adding to my list of "needs" ! I should've known though,,..
as far as glock talk forum goes, I'll do my best to stay off there, I respect the members here more than any other forum I've come across and there is never a shortage of info y'all are willing to hand out for free so all jokes aside thank you very much.
Now I'll pop over to the section that claims I can't cast my own for glock......
My 2 Cents: Go S+W M+P , better gun , American made. I have 3 and looking at buying my 4th, all in 9 mm. The 3 dot sight leaves a lot to be desired, but the rest is primo !
Full Disclosure: I am a S+W man, have been ever since I was a kid.
Matt
OPPS, late to the party, did not see the glock was ordered. I'm sure you will enjoy !
Last edited by MKN; 03-02-2017 at 11:08 PM. Reason: late post
I believe the OP has already ordered a Glock 19.
S&W is a good option, as well as many others. After looking at several CZ's I am very impressed. I always thought I should have gone with a S&W instead of the Glocks, but after having looked at CZ's if I buy another handgun for myself that is what it will be.
I see m+p 9's used for 249$ online so ill have to save for one of those next time.
This time I couldn't resist the nickel boron job they are doing on these. Looks good to me. It's called "battleworn"
Oh also, appears that glock is American made now too
Last edited by Drew P; 03-03-2017 at 12:20 PM.
I run Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC @1200 fps. In my G20 gen 3 SF. I don't notice much recoil.
It sure recoil less than my 480 Ruger. But more than my wife's 9.
The Gen 2 G19 we had was very easy shooting. I was holding a friends M&P 40 , he has the palm swell grip installed and it didn't fit my hand very well. But then his hand is quite a bit bigger than mine. He loves that grip and doesn't like the feel of my Glock with the SF grip. And liked the regular G20/21 grip better. Same with some other friends who's fingers and thumb are a full 1 1/4" longer than mine. . But then I have NEVER been able to Palm a basketball. Have to work at it to Palm a soccer ball.
You are being watched.
Sounds close to the load I'm using...
I got some Longshot just for this round . I had got a bunch of the Buffalo Bore factory ammo a while ago . Rim Rock sells that boolit ( 220 gr TC). Until I get the mold I'll use the Rim Rock boolits. Thanks for the data, I'll work up to it. I have a 20 lb. Spring and a L.W. oem length barrel. I'm thinking about upping it to 22 or 24 lb spring. And eventually a threaded barrel with a muzzle break.
You are being watched.
It's a little more work resizing the bullet from .41 mag down to 10mm, but it gives me a way to cast a bullet that I could not find elsewhere for this cheap.
I've never resized/ lubrisized any boolits. So, this may be a dumb question, but, . When you size down, does it shave off the excess diameter of the boolit ? Or does it squeeze the boolit down to the dies size ???
Thank you .
Glen.
Last edited by Cold Trigger Finger; 03-04-2017 at 07:44 PM.
You are being watched.
Probably depends upon how much you are resizing in a single step.
In the above photo, the .41 mag SWC became a 10mm WFN upon resizing. The powder coating had been put on the .41 mag bullet before it was resized. As you can see, the powder coating is still on the sides of he bullet. In that photo, I'm doing a 10mm load using .40SW brass -- powder and OAL is 10mm load data, just the brass is .40SW. It is fired in my 10mm handguns -- G20, G29, RIA M1911. It ends up headspacing on the extractor.
Well we tried out the glock today. Yep, shoots like a glock. I like it a lot. My gf was doing well with it too. Much better than with her new subcompact Taurus. Well, it cost over 2x as much so it should shoot better. I'm quite sure all this grip angle talk is poppycock. Point the weapon and shoot it. Seems easy enough to me and my hands agree with the flat sided grip. It may actually be what a hindering my 1911 shooting, the g10 grips give the frame an oval profile.
Anyway I was expecting a true polygon barrel which I know I've seen, but this barrel looked different to me. any thoughts? Tried to get a good shot.
Of course my LGS dude warned me that you can't shoot lead in them. I informed him that I'll be shooting only lead in it lol. Some people you just can't reach.
So so nice to have a pistol that holds 16, small and LIGHT! The 9 really has a nice manageable recoil yet puts an impressive hurt on the steels and mud opponents we were facing.
The mag mag release may need to get extended however. Its darn hard to get it to drop a mag out. I'm really trying hard to leave this thing bone stock though. We will see how long I can hold off on that lol.
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