Anybody using Pewter?

[kawalekm]

A good source of tin and antimony for bullet casting is pewter. By law, any alloy called pewter must be at least 85% tin, with the rest being lead and antimony. When at the flea market or yard sales, it's easy to spot old pewter. When you flip it over and look at the legion printed on the bottom, it usually says pewter. Even if unlabeled, it's easy to spot because it's so soft, it's easy to deform (that's why people get rid of it cheap at yard sales). I recently visited a pewter manufacturer and learned that the pewter currently on the market is now lead-free, with a composition of 97/3% tin/antimony. While I was there, I bought about 20lbs of floor turnings for 10$. That's 97/3% alloy for 50 cents per lb. For casting now, I melt enough wheelweights to get 19lbs of metal and throw in 1lb of melted down pewter turnings. That should make my alloy very close to Lyman's #2 with only 50 cents of tin added (wheelweights are free). Casting results have been excellent. Anyone else here casting alloy with pewter?
Michael

[madcaster]

I have a friend who does just that,he finds it at flea markets and yardsales.It keeps a shiny color on the boolits as well.

[felix]

A third pound of that would be more than enough for 20 pounds of WW. ... felix

[shotstring]

Pewter normally also contains copper - up to 2 1/2% although normally closer to .5%. I wonder what the pieces with the higher copper content would do to the melt? I think we discussed this on a thread earlier with solder that contained small amounts of copper, but 2 1/2% isn't so small an amount.

[Shiloh]

Pewter normally also contains copper - up to 2 1/2% although normally closer to .5%. I wonder what the pieces with the higher copper content would do to the melt? I think we discussed this on a thread earlier with solder that contained small amounts of copper, but 2 1/2% isn't so small an amount.

Copper would probably be a hardening alloy. Similar to copper being added to silver at .075 %. When done at this percentage it becomes Sterling Silver. Hence, 925 being stamped on Sterling flatware, jewelry and ornamental items.


I have also acquired pewter on the cheap at garage sales for alloying purposes.

[felix]

No, the percentage is 7.5 percent copper. Now, that's an idea! I wonder what would happen if one ounce of that Sterling accidently (damn costly) dropped into a pot of WW? The problem with copper, in lead, is that the flux we use for the mix is worthless in keeping the copper equally distributed throughout the mix, and most especially when the mix is dropped into the mold. Copper cools so fast that it tends to migrate as fast as a beach ball in the swimming pool. Silver just might be the electronic glue required to keep the copper in solution. ... felix

[Ohio Rusty]

If you have some pewter and your are thinking of pouring it into a bullet mould (AAACK!!) I'll trade you straight WW ingots for the pewter. I use pewter for pouring the ammenities on knife handles and bolsters. Pewter is lead free and can be used on utensils that you might east with.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Psalms 27:1-2/91:9-11 (AMP)

[kawalekm]

Sorry Rusty, I think you missed this sentence ....

"For casting now, I melt enough wheelweights to get 19lbs of metal and throw in 1lb of melted down pewter turnings".

Sorry, but I won't be trading any of that. I don't make pewter bullets, just use it to enrich my ww alloy, to make it close to Lyman alloy #2. Casting results with it have been superb, with clean sharp edges, and uniform air vent tails on every bullet.
Michael

[jim4065]

Michael - ".....uniform air vent tails on every bullet."

I'm missing these completely, except for when I fail to close the mold all the way and the boolit gets fins. By any chance do you have a pic of this? Sounds like you're getting much better fill-out than I am - need to increase the tin (or find some pewter).

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hmmm... I'm gonna have to go scrounging...

I usually add 1-2% tin to my WWs, so I'd be looking at 1/3rd to 4/10ths of a lb. of pewter to a 19.6lb pot of WWs... Even if the pewter contained 2.5% copper, at the ratio I'm using pewter to WWs, I'm thinking the finished alloy would have .01lbs of copper in the 20-lb pot. That works out to .05% of the finished alloy being copper. Would that be enough to cause casting/alloying/fluxing problems?

[felix]

No, you are good to go. ... felix

[MakeMineA10mm]

No, you are good to go. ... felix

felix, thanks.

Did you check my math? (It wasn't my strong suit in school...) Am I calculating/thinking right on the percentages?

.05% seemed awfully small to me. I believe I've read elsewhere that WWs may have that much copper in them... Didn't seem logical that it would cause a problem, but it keeps getting mentioned.

[felix]

Nah, did not check the math because it won't offer anything over what Michael said above. If he is getting that kind of fillout, and especially getting that mold groove leak, the mix is staying plenty hot enough for keeping the copper within Dodge City. ... felix

[GrizzLeeBear]

A third pound of that would be more than enough for 20 pounds of WW. ... felix

Hey, finally a use for those 1/2 lb. slots in the the Lee ingot mold! Scrounge a bunch of old pewter stuff at yardsales and flea markets. Melt them down and pour into 1/2 lb. ingots. Then just add one of these pewter ingot to a 20 lb. pot of WW.


Ooooh, just noticed. Post 150. I'm now a "Boolit Master"! Is that like a Jedi Master? LOL

[leftiye]

Am I missing something? or is brass copper and tin? (reads brazing rod) How hard would it be to alloy this with silver in order to get an alloy that would go into pure lead or whatever in small amounts, and keep the copper homogenous and below the amount that becomes problematical? Maybe add enough tin that you could get 20 to 1 alloy containing silver and copper in good proportions by adding an lb. to 19 lbs.. Good for tough expanding boolits.

[Ricochet]

I think the "air vent tails" referred to meant that the sprue cutoffs were nice and even.

[jh45gun]

fine: for eatingware, with 96-99 percent tin, and 1-4 percent copper
trifle: also for eating and drinking utensils but duller in appearance, with 92 percent tin, 1-6 percent copper, and up to 4 percent lead
lay/ley: not for eating or drinking utensils, which could contain up to 15 percent lead

I suppose they are more carefull now but back in the old days they ate and drank on pewter utensils that caused problems. Myself I would not take a chance eating or drinking with any pewter item.

[kawalekm]

I've found a fantastic old book called "Fortunes in Formulas" by Books, Inc of New York. It's dated 1957 and has about 900 pages of recipes of chemical formulas for making household items. It gives recipes for things like how to make paint, match heads, and portland cement. Their recipe for 1950's pewter is ...

79% tin
10% lead
7% antimony
2% bismuth
2% copper

Today's modern lead-free pewter recipe is 97% tin, 3% antimony, so if there is a trace of copper at all it's less than 1% (recipe for Selangor Pewter of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia). Assuming that I used just antique pewter (which I have), at a ratio of 1:20 lbs of ww metal, the total copper added would only be about 0.1%. This is the ratio that gives me pretty vent tails. This is all fluxed with Marvalux about 10 times during the casting session. I tried taking a photo for you but my camera does't focus close enough to see them in the picture. I'm not talking about the sprue on top. By vent holes, I mean the little horizontal groves cut into the sides of the block to vent air out as lead is poured in. Those are what fill in, and the bullets come out looking like little pin cushions.
Michael

[Ron]

Kawalekm,
I don't know what your problem is but you should NOT have vent holes filled with lead. Your boolits should be smooth and clean with no signs of vent lines on them. I think it has probably something to do with temperature but I am sure, one of the older hands here will set you right and fix your problem.

[kawalekm]

I'm sorry Ron, but I have to disagree with that. I think the vent holes filling is reaching the ulitmate in good bullet pouring. If fill-out is so good that the vent hole fill, every other single spot inside the mold is full. I can see that all my edges are razor sharp without any rounding at all. These bullets are beautiful and I'm going to strive for it every time. A vent hole bullet is a flawless bullet!
Michael