Gathering parts

[marlinman93]

Picked up a black powder era Rolling Block barreled action not long ago. Plan is to build a .40-65 Sporting Rifle on the action. The .43 Spanish barrel is perfect, but no interest to me. I already have a .40 caliber Green Mountain full octagon barrel 35" long, that will get cut to 34". Numrich bought all of Remington's leftover parts, so went to their site and ordered a pistol grip lower trigger plate, and a deluxe stock set. The stocks come with casehardened buttplate, and forearm tip. They also are checkered and finished, so hoped they'd be a good fit to my action! I also ordered all the separate parts to assemble a Remington long range vernier tang sight. Very reasonably priced for everything!! Stock sets were under $200, and tang sight parts were around $165.
Yesterday all the parts arrived and in great shape! The stock set is absolutely gorgeous, and cut checkering is really nice! Took a few minutes and assembled the tang sight. It's a nice sight and is very tight, so should work quite well. No windage adjustment, but I prefer windage globes anyway.
I checked the fit of the lower tang to my receiver, and the lower tang is slightly wider by a few thousandths. Wont take much draw filing to get a perfect fit. The stocks are cut for that lower tang, but since they copy a sporting action, the upper tang of my military donor needs to be slimmed down to fit the top inletting. I need to anneal the receiver for polishing anyway, so I'll wait to narrow it after it's annealed. Once the barrel is fitted, and all is polished out, I'll send it off for rust bluing and color case work.
I got the last octagon deluxe forearm they had in stock, and the last complete set of vernier sight parts! Not my usual luck, as normally I order right after they run out of something!
Here's the buttstock Numrich sent:

[marlinman93]

Spent some time after lunch working the trigger plate down. It fit great at the front, but the micrometer told me it was about .020" too wide at the last half of the plate. So used a draw file to remove .010" off each side by hand, and it's a nice snug fit now.





Need to maybe remove a little more for a slip fit. Also need to remove some height and shape the trigger plate, as it sits below the receiver slightly. It's very hard steel, so needs annealing also. Looks like the upper tang is thicker than the inletting of the wood. Once it's narrowed and I can test fit it, I'll know if it needs thickness taken off it also.
Also need to decide if I modify the trigger plate at the rear for attachment. Military receivers use a through bolt, and sporting receivers use a screw threaded into the trigger plate from each side, to accommodate single set triggers. I can either drill the bosses out, or drill and countersink the right receiver hole, and add a screw there.

[Chill Wills]

Wow! I am totally impressed with the stock. I did not know this was still available. Good job!
Are you thinking you might couture the hammer and do anything with the top of the receiver ring?

[marlinman93]

Wow! I am totally impressed with the stock. I did not know this was still available. Good job!
Are you thinking you might couture the hammer and do anything with the top of the receiver ring?

I didn't either until recently, and glad I ordered before they were gone!
I will contour the hammer spur and the breechblock spur. Breech block wont take much, except a little concave to the back side. I'll overlay my sporting hammer and mark this hammer to shape it closer.
BP receivers are not as thick as a smokeless Rolling Block receiver in the shank area, so not much to work with there. Considered just flattening the octagon shape, but leaving the corners rounded. Not sure that's a good look. Early Sporting Rifles were round top, so this may stay round top for strength.

[Kraschenbirn]

Thanks for the 'heads up' on Numrich have RB parts. I've got a semi-bubba'd #5 (smokeless) that needs a barrel and I've been thinking, maybe, 44-77 or .40-65. Will check there and see what I can find.

Bill

[marlinman93]

Thanks for the 'heads up' on Numrich have RB parts. I've got a semi-bubba'd #5 (smokeless) that needs a barrel and I've been thinking, maybe, 44-77 or .40-65. Will check there and see what I can find.

Bill

They only have 30" .45-70 half octagon barrels. But since you have a #5 Rolling Block those barrels may not fit! The #5 was the only Rolling Block to use the larger barrel shank, and wont interchange with other Rolling Block barrels.
If you got one of those barrels I'm unsure if you could cut off the threads and cut new threads, as diameter might not be large enough to allow the larger #5 threaded shank. It takes a #3.5 sized barrel to have enough meat. So regardless of which barrel you use, be sure it can be cut to the 1.055" thread diameter used on a #5. Original barrels were 1.12" round at the receiver. An octagon barrel would need to be 1.125" across the flats to butt up against the receiver and give good support and full threads.

[marlinman93]

Looks like I need to gather another part or do a repair to the breech block. The block was once a RF block, and someone converted it to CF, but not a good conversion! They simply milled a new angle hole to the CF position, but didn't fill the old hole in the block. They filled the tip hole in the face of the block. In doing the new hole they missed the center, so instead they made up an offset tip on the firing pin to fix their mistake! That pin was broken and stuck, and they snapped the head off the retaining screw. By the time I got it all removed and saw what they'd done I had made a new offset pin, but it's just not right. Need to bush or weld the block and then bore a proper hole to accept a factory correct firing pin. Or just toss this block and get a donor block. Might even consider going to a rotay extractor block, so it has more leverage to extract a stuck case.

[marlinman93]

A good friend saved my project this weekend! I was at our local collector's gun show at OAC and he came up and handed me a package. I opened it, and inside was a old breech block for a sliding extractor Rolling Block, complete with firing pin! It's going to need some polishing to remove light pitting, but it's a huge step forward over repairing the other block I have! And at $15 it will keep my budget down too!
I installed it in the action and checked it for square to the bore, and it will likely need a little work at the back where it rests on the hammer to get it true, but that's pretty minor. Will take the block and receiver to the welder next week and have the tang crack repaired, and the breech block built up, so I fit it properly. One step closer to fitting the barrel, and then polishing everything before I send it out for casehardening and rust blue!

[marlinman93]

Today I got the cracked upper tang welded, along with a small build up on the new old breech block to close up some slop in the block-hammer clearances. Also to ensure the block was square with the barrel at the chamber, so brass wont be ruined on firing.
Got all the welds worked down, and tried the action into the buttstock again to ensure all still fits after tang weld. Test fitted the Remington forearm to the #3.5 weight Green Mountain barrel and it's a perfect fit, so no opening up of forearm wood or metal tip! Checked the round shank area of the GM barrel for length, and it's 1/10" longer than receiver, so the barrel will have a nice little round to octagon fluted area that will look nicer.
Just need to start polishing the receiver parts, and waiting for my buddy to get time free to fit and chamber the barrel. It's 35" long now, and I want it to be 34" finished length. Might be fall before he's got some time, and I'll be practicing my engraving on scrap plates in the interim, to see if I can get acceptable to do some borders and scroll work.
Camera broke last week, so no pictures until I get a new one soon! Here's an old picture of the receiver:

[pull the trigger]

I didn't know you were an engraver. Show us your practice work please.

[marlinman93]

I didn't know you were an engraver. Show us your practice work please.

Oh, I'd never pass myself off as an engraver! I have a good friend who is a Guild engraver, and has been trying to show me how to engrave. To date I've not touched an action or gun part with a cutter! My practice sessions are relegated to steel plates so I can clear them on the belt sander and do over. Nothing I'd ever consider putting to a fine action yet!
But I hope to be passable enough at some point that I'd at least mess up my own gun! Still waiting on my replacement camera after mine broke 3 weeks ago, so couldn't take pictures. But if it was here, I'm not sure I'd want to show my mediocre scratchings yet.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

marlinman, it would be nice if you could find a hammer like this one. I was told it was made for a Swedish rolling block shotgun. I have never seen another.

[marlinman93]

marlinman, it would be nice if you could find a hammer like this one. I was told it was made for a Swedish rolling block shotgun. I have never seen another.

Yes, that's a good looking hammer! I've owned a number of Swede and Dane Rollers, but never seen a hammer like that? Guessing it must be from some commercial or rework, and not a military Swede Roller.
I rework the military hammers to give them a similar look, and lighten the hammers. It reduces lock time and with a good trigger return spring they become very nice hammer/trigger setups. Still need to do more work on this hammer to get it down smaller. I'll post pictures once I replace my camera soon.
I have another early 11.7 Danish military Roller coming soon. Just purchased it from a gun shop up north of me. Was hoping for another donor action, but pictures showed a pretty nice gun, so likely wont break it down to use.

[marlinman93]

Been a long time since I've done anything on this Rolling Block Creedmoor clone project! But it's finally coming closer to the end! Finished all the fitting of wood to receiver, and polished out the receiver parts. Packed up the barrel and all the parts to send to Al Springer for rust bluing and color case! Will be shipping them out this week, and hopefully be done and ready for laod work up before Christmas.
Since Photobucket messed up, here's some replacement images of the stocks back when I started this.









And this is what I'm attempting to copy, except I'll be doing a full octagon 34" barrel on mine:

[Chill Wills]

Do you think you will make the Creedmoor weight limit? What was it? 10 lbs even? Single trigger. Not less than 3 lb break. Or am I confusing this? This, from the top of my head......

I have had my hands on a few Creedmoors, never owned one and maybe never will.

[marlinman93]

Well since the Creedmoor match doesn't exist any longer, I'm not concerned about making the old 1870's weight limit of 10 lbs. Even if I turned the barrel half octagon I doubt the #3.5 weight GM barrel would allow the gun to come in under the old 10 lb. limit. My caliber wont be typical Creedmoor rifle either, as those were .44-77 Rem.-Sharps Bottleneck, loaded with 90 grs. of BP to make them a .44-90.
In looking at Marcot's Rolling Block Sporting Rifle book I saw examples of Creedmoor Rolling Blocks with full octagon barrels built back in the day with full octagon barrels, and also some with single set triggers. So guessing some owners ordered those guns without the thought of competing at Creedmoor even back then.
Wish I could afford an original like the image I posted, as my preference is always for originals with that gorgeous patina! But considering I've never seen a real Creedmoor Rolling Block under $6k I'll have to settle for building this one under $1,000. Building for the general appearance, in a caliber that's easier on my shoulder, so more fun to shoot! Guessing it will weigh around 11-11.5 lbs. and in .40-65 should be a sweetheart to shoot all day!

[Chill Wills]

Well since the Creedmoor match doesn't exist any longer, I'm not concerned about making the old 1870's weight limit of 10 lbs.

Right.

I just thought I would ask if you intended to make a real Creedmoor or something else you enjoy, like a Creedmoor. What ever you create is good with me.
If you are not a competitor it does not mater. There are those of us that still wish we could get enough interest to recreate a match in the old style.
Modern Creedmoor, fun as it is, does not hold my interest as much. If I build a Creedmoor some day, it would fit the old rules in hopes of a match.

[marlinman93]

I have an original Ballard #7 Long Range in .44-100 that was built to meet Creedmoor rules. It came with a 535 gr. bullet mold! If by chance some organization was to ever reintroduce another 800-1000 yd. match under the Creedmoor rules I'm set with that gun. But 10 lb. rifles in Creedmoor calibers are NOT fun to shoot much! They will kick the heck out of me, and 90-100 grain charges are pretty stiff with over 500 gr. bullets! Not my idea of fun!

[Chill Wills]

Nice Ballard! I am much more the competitor, then accumulator, and not so much collector.
Mostly, I am attracted to rifles I can shoot, and I am attracted to historic matches.
However, I do very much admire great rifle collections. Off and on I am a member of the Colorado Gun Collectors assoc. as time permits, and it is not too often I miss the May show.

You write: "I have an original Ballard #7 Long Range in .44-100 that was built to meet Creedmoor rules. It came with a 535 gr. bullet mold! If by chance some organization was to ever reintroduce another 800-1000 yd. match under the Creedmoor rules I'm set with that gun."

You have said you only shoot smokeless and cannot take the recoil of the large Creedmoor calibers, so maybe no chance of that.

There are small groups of us that desire to shoot LR matches close to the old rules now. However, because most competitors have rifles that make the 13lb limit, and there is little incentive to build a 10lb rifle other than the joy of shooting something like "back when", it may be that never in my lifetime we have a pure Creedmoor rules match. I would be one of the first in line should the chance come.

I think it could happen should we entice the Oakridge guys to shoot against the breach-loaders in a recreation match.

Got any more originals to show us ? I always like looking!

BTW - it has been through the CGC that I have had my hands on a fair number of the old Creedmoors. One being a 1877 Sharps. You cann't do that every day! Holding someones elses is free.

Best,

[marlinman93]

I try to make the CGCA show every May also! It's one of my favorite shows in the USA!

Yes, I also don't own anything I don't shoot, but as I mentioned not enjoying full loads in guns like my #7 Long Range Ballard, I use reduced smokeless loads and lighter bullets of around 325 grs. The old 535 gr. mold doesn't see any use, but it stays with everything else I got with the gun when I bought it.
I enjoy collecting, and accumulating, but don't own anything I wont shoot. All of mine get shot some, and some get shot more than others because they shoot so well! Most of my old Ballard and Remington rifles are originals, but a few have been restored as they were so bad when I found them, and couldn't be safely fired.
This one is my original #4 Perfection in .32-40. It usually is my go to gun for deer season:






These two are my original Ballard #3 on the left, and #5 Pacific on the right. The #3 has a full length Stevens scope, and was rebored at Stevens to .25 Stevens RF. The Pacific is in .40-85 Ballard Everlasting: